Isn't that what he is? (Also doesn't Mamoru also mean Earth? I've seen both protector and earth before...)

'Mamoru' means to protect and the Chi in Chiba is the same in Chikyuu, the Japanese word for Earth; the Ba stands for place or location. So his name is basically a pun for Earth Protector, just like the girls' names are puns as well.

Either way, one of them is going to have to lose their connection to their planetary body. You could argue that Usagi should since she's becoming the Queen of the Earth. They will almost definitely not keep their own names, in Japan, married couples must legally have the same family name. But you could equally argue that Mamoru should because Crystal Tokyo is effectively a second Moon Kingdom.

~~~Offtopic~~~

Most of the main character names have some sort of second meaning to their names, though some are more ambiguous than others ( >>>> <<<< ). The "ba" in Chiba possible marks two ideas, that the place of protection is "earth" or that the field of discipline of his protection is "earth". Its actual probably likely the second one, because when ba is taken to mean location , the concept is more of a specific marked area. When "ba" (場) is taken to mean "field/discipline/area of expertise", it can albeit quite rarely be equated with "no" (野) which is a literal field of grass and the same "no" in Tsukino, Hino, Aino, Mizuno and Kino. So Naoko was possibly, and quite likely, drawing a connection between Mamoru and the girls through associated kanji. Did I explain that okay?

I don't think it's second Moon Kingdom - it's new kingdom on new planet. Usagi is not only Moon Princess, but also Earth girl.

its the Second Silver Millennium, a continuation of the Moon Matriarchy, Queen Serenity ---> Princess Serenity ---> Usagi Small Lady Serenity, its a bit clear that the Moon Matriarchy is still going strong through Crystal Tokyo, you can see it as both a second Moon Kingdom and an Earth Kingdom, its not a one-or-the-other situation unlike Tsukino/Chiba.

It's not matriarchy, if there's both king and queen. Who are both of Earth, despite Usagi also having Moon heritage.

Its still a matriarchy, the female holds the majority of the power. Its a lineage of females as Pluto tells us and we see through the birth of Chibiusa, so it is still a matriarchy regardless of the presence of a King. Be careful not to confuse a matriarchy for a Queendom

As far as I understand this - presence of King is impossible in matriarchy, where only women can rule. And Queendom, even without King, isn't necessarily always matriarchy.

The thing is, Usagi as the Moon heiress who became Queen of Earth doesn't automatically make second Silver Millennium. It's still the Earth Kingdom, with Earth citizens and Earth monarchs. And Usagi taking surname "Chiba" would reflect that.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

As far as I understand this - presence of King is impossible in matriarchy, where only women can rule. And Queendom, even without King, isn't necessarily always matriarchy.

The thing is, Usagi as the Moon heiress who became Queen of Earth doesn't automatically make second Silver Millennium. It's still the Earth Kingdom, with Earth citizens and Earth monarchs. And Usagi taking surname "Chiba" would reflect that.

A Matriarch is simply a political group where the woman is in charge, it does not mean there is "only" a woman. A family is considered matriarchal if the Mother runs everything even if she is married to a man, Iroquois and some Maori societies have been considered matriarchal even though there are males in dominating roles. There is a King, yes, but Neo Queen Serenity is in charge, so it is still a matriarchal system. A matriarch is simply where the woman is at the head of the power. As the wielder of the Silver Crystal and the one who always stands up when her power is needed, it is quite clear she is in charge. The anime makes it quite ambiguous but its made quite clear in the musicals and manga that the Queen is the power.

I'm not saying its not an Earth Kingdom, I'm just saying that because its an Earth Kingdom doesn't it mean its not also a Moon Kingdom, they aren't exclusive terms. Its both I would say, taking either name reflects either and wouldn't make much difference. She even took the name "Neo- Queen Serenity" which is a stronger indication that she's the New Queen Serenity. I think you might be getting caught up in the technicalities of things...

EDIT:

My goodness that's alot of the word "matriarch"

You know what? Mamoru Tsukino. Why? Because there are several, GOOD reasons for him to take her last name now that I look at it. ONE of the reasons being FEELS! Seriously! How ADORABLE would it be if he took on the name Mamoru Tsukino? Hmm? IT WOULD BE CUTE AS HELL. And yes, his name would mean "Protector of the Moon"; that's what he is. You could take it to mean "Protector of Usagi". Which, is completely adorable. All the feels. All the UsaMamo feels.

One cannot argue with feels

Houyou no Senshi wrote:

There is a King, yes, but Neo Queen Serenity is in charge, so it is still a matriarchal system. A matriarch is simply where the woman is at the head of the power. As the wielder of the Silver Crystal and the one who always stands up when her power is needed, it is quite clear she is in charge. The anime makes it quite ambiguous but its made quite clear in the musicals and manga that the Queen is the power.

I'm not saying its not an Earth Kingdom, I'm just saying that because its an Earth Kingdom doesn't it mean its not also a Moon Kingdom, they aren't exclusive terms. Its both I would say, taking either name reflects either and wouldn't make much difference. She even took the name "Neo- Queen Serenity" which is a stronger indication that she's the New Queen Serenity. I think you might be getting caught up in the technicalities of things...

Given the personalities of Usagi and Mamoru I really can't see her as being the one in charge (I haven't seen musicals and I work mostly on anime canon). Yes, she wields the power of Silver Crystal and uses it in times of danger - but there are not many. And during times of peace I cannot see her ruling without his support - magical power isn't as necessary for a monarch as other traits Mamoru possesses.

And her taking name of "Neo-Queen Serenity" reflects already her Moon heritage, so taking surname "Chiba" would reflect both her Earth heritage and connection to Mamoru.

I think she kept Tsukino. First of all I'm not a MamoxUsagi fan to begin with (I mean I don't hate them I'm just only well acquainted with the anime Mamoru who's a ****.) Anyway, I think she kept her name & made Mamoru change his xD

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Given the personalities of Usagi and Mamoru I really can't see her as being the one in charge (I haven't seen musicals and I work mostly on anime canon)

Though the anime doesn't make it as clear but its still present, when she's older Usagi grows to be a much more mature and elegant lady, in the anime this is best demonstrated through her relationship with Chibiusa. Its hard to say much for the anime we rarely see Neo Queen Serenity and Usagi doesn't mature quite as rapidly, but Chibiusa's "lady idolization" of her and everyone else in Crystal Tokyo's fawning over their Queen is indicative. In the manga and musicals, even by the Dream arc, Usagi has matured and become quite less silly and quite a bit more serious. Nonetheless, even as Usagi in the earlier arcs she pretty much has Mamoru twisted around her little finger. In the musicals, we see Neo Queen Serenity and her relationship with Endymion, she is quite a bit harsher on Chibiusa than we would expect (about as hard as Ikuko is on Usagi), and the clear authority, the King himself is actually shown busy making dinner for her and his daughter.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

Given the personalities of Usagi and Mamoru I really can't see her as being the one in charge (I haven't seen musicals and I work mostly on anime canon). Yes, she wields the power of Silver Crystal and uses it in times of danger - but there are not many. And during times of peace I cannot see her ruling without his support - magical power isn't as necessary for a monarch as other traits Mamoru possesses.

Are you serious? It sounds like you're saying a woman needs a man by her side to do anything. Especially rule. Which, isn't true, especially in Sailor Moon. I feel like you've missed a ton of messages that were given in the series. All you seem to demonstrate is this thought that Mamoru is flawless and is the true ruler and more powerful than Usagi and all this nonsense.

Usagi, first of all, doesn't need a man to do crap. If Mamoru weren't in the picture, she'd still be all powerful, all awesome, etc. And she'd still be queen. Second, I'm not saying Mamoru isn't important or powerful, but he isn't the first ruler and she's the second. It's more Usagi is first with Mamoru behind. Or if anything, perhaps equal. But regardless, Usagi is the Queen, Usagi is the most powerful person in the universe and she definitely doesn't need a man to do anything.

I honestly can't believe you missed all the growth Usagi went through in the anime. Also remember something; Usagi in the anime is 14-16. Neo Queen Serenity is much older than that. Did you not pay attention in the flashbacks (or flashforwards if you wanna go there) of Chibiusa talking to her mother? She was very mature, wise, elegant, etc. etc. Miles and miles away from the Usagi she once was.

I really think you need to rewatch Sailor Moon and actually pay attention to what the series has to offer, rather than gloming to this idea that Usagi is more or less worthless.

Usagi has matured a lot, but at the end of the series she still retains much of her flaws - she still is clumsy, crybaby, not very great student and somewhat ditz. And yes, we don't see much of NQS in anime, but she still can't write properly. Personally, I would feel sorry to see Usagi loosing her flaws and becoming Rei, Ami or Michiru clone.

And Usagi may be extremely powerful (though anime-wise Galaxia was clearly much more powerful and Saturn maybe too), but IMO regardless of her power she still can cope without Mamoru - see especially SuperS and Stars.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

Usagi has matured a lot, but at the end of the series she still retains much of her flaws - she still is clumsy, crybaby, not very great student and somewhat ditz. And yes, we don't see much of NQS in anime, but she still can't write properly. Personally, I would feel sorry to see Usagi loosing her flaws and becoming Rei, Ami or Michiru clone.

And Usagi may be extremely powerful (though anime-wise Galaxia was clearly much more powerful and Saturn maybe too), but IMO regardless of her power she still can cope without Mamoru - see especially SuperS and Stars.

Chick-a-dee, no one is perfect. Not even Usagi. Even the most elegant, beautiful, wonderful people are still flawed. So what if she can't write? That makes her unfit? I think what makes Usagi fit is the fact that she has grown so much, along with the fact that she loves the world, the galaxy, the universe, so much.

Also, just because it's hard to deal with a lover not by your side doesn't mean you can't function. I saw her functioning just fine in the series when Mamoru wasn't present (like in Stars). Yeah she had her moments where she was sad, but she was still able to function. She still got out of bed, she was still able to become Sailor Moon and save the day. So....no. Everyone, including Usagi, can function "without their partner" if something happens.

And that's a reason why I like the idea of Mamoru Tsukino more than Usagi Chiba. Because Usagi, in reality, is his rock more than he is her rock. She gives him love and a family. I'm not saying he isn't supportive or protective of her or a great character; I'm saying Usagi gives him everything he could ever want and more. So, it fits better. Plus, Mamoru Tsukino is just all kinds of cute where Usagi Chiba isn't really cute.

I honestly think, in all the "discussions" I've had with you, that you don't really like Usagi and you idolize Mamoru to an unrealistic area. It's fine if you don't like Usagi, just like you think Mamoru is the most perfect character ever (your opinions) but if you don't have really any sort of grounds for your reasoning, other than "omg Mamoru is so great and dreamy and flawless", why continue on? All I see is you basically constantly saying that Usagi is weak, more or less worthless, and unfit for her various roles she takes on (or will take on). Which, none of these points are true.

At this point we're slightly off topic here, but I agree... In the anime, she's still a bit silly and clumsy at times, but like watch an episode of Stars and compare it with the early season one episodes. It's very obvious she's matured a lot.

And at this point if anyone hasn't read the manga, you need a slap on the wrists and an intimate study session with just you and the manga. xD

As I've said before about Usagi, if she wasn't silly and clumsy still, she'd go crazy. So much responsibility on her before the age of 16? Yeah, I'd be ridiculous too when I had the chance, just so I could stop being responsible for a bit.

I'm starting to like her keeping "Tsukino" and Mamoru taking her name more, specifically with the point of Usagi being his rock. I mean, that's the point of her to everyone, that she's their shining star, but I'm pretty sure it's clear through most adaptations (damn you, anime, for such a pale shadow of their relationship) that Mamoru would lose his mind if he lost Usagi. So I can definitely see him cutting ties with his family name and taking Usagi's as a reflection of that.

Small Lady wrote:

And at this point if anyone hasn't read the manga, you need a slap on the wrists and an intimate study session with just you and the manga. xD

I did read manga - and recently reread it. But I still prefer anime version...

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Also, just because it's hard to deal with a lover not by your side doesn't mean you can't function. I saw her functioning just fine in the series when Mamoru wasn't present (like in Stars). Yeah she had her moments where she was sad, but she was still able to function. She still got out of bed, she was still able to become Sailor Moon and save the day. So....no. Everyone, including Usagi, can function "without their partner" if something happens.

Usagi was calling his answering machine just to hear his voice and had a breakdown in rain - that's not sometimes sad, that's desperate.

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

And that's a reason why I like the idea of Mamoru Tsukino more than Usagi Chiba. Because Usagi, in reality, is his rock more than he is her rock. She gives him love and a family. I'm not saying he isn't supportive or protective of her or a great character; I'm saying Usagi gives him everything he could ever want and more. So, it fits better. Plus, Mamoru Tsukino is just all kinds of cute where Usagi Chiba isn't really cute.

I honestly think, in all the "discussions" I've had with you, that you don't really like Usagi and you idolize Mamoru to an unrealistic area. It's fine if you don't like Usagi, just like you think Mamoru is the most perfect character ever (your opinions) but if you don't have really any sort of grounds for your reasoning, other than "omg Mamoru is so great and dreamy and flawless", why continue on? All I see is you basically constantly saying that Usagi is weak, more or less worthless, and unfit for her various roles she takes on (or will take on). Which, none of these points are true.

I love Usagi as much as I love Mamoru - but he's so universally hated that I have passionate urge to defend him. And for me it's another example of the common belief that Mamoru is not good enough for Usagi and doesn't deserve her and he should be grateful that she settled for him. Which IMO Usagi would strongly object to, as she fully agrees with me that Mamoru is perfect, flawless and her dream guy. And her rock.

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but he's so universally hated that I have passionate urge to defend him

I think he's a far cry from universally hated... If you have a "passionate urge to defend him" you are probably talking from emotions and your personal opinions rather than facts and evidence. I don't think its a very strong backing to say "there is a common belief that..." once you bring in unjustified and vague pseudo-facts, then logic sort of breaks down, no one has really said anything like that in this thread. No one is questioning Mamoru and Usagi's relationship here, this is a discussion on which name they would take. I think there is more evidence for Tsukino, and less meaningful for Chiba, other than "he's a male and therefore the dominant one". Usagi is a strong independent female, she loves Mamoru very much, but she is not lost without him in any version of the series. Yes, she will become sad and cry but that doesn't stop her completely, she is capable, even though she stayed in her room and cried during the first series and Stars when Mamoru disappeared, both times she remembered that there are more important to worry about and got out of bed to save the day whether or not Mamoru was at her side. He is her rock, she is his, they does not make them nothing without the other. The anime shows the weakest relationship between Mamoru and Usagi sadly so its hard to take too much evidence from it, the anime was never particularly good at demonstrating relationships, especially in comparison to other versions probably due to its action-based plot. Usagi is a mentally and physically (at least magically) strong individual, and almost definitely more so than her boyfriend.

Well, IMO there is more arguments for Chiba. Not only as his surname, but also as indication that Usagi was also born on Earth and is now Earthling.

And sorry, but for me idea of NQS ruling alone as matriarch and Mamoru serving as decoration is lack of appreciation of his character.

And IMO anime better shows how Usagi needs Mamoru, despite him not being powerful.

I see NQS handing the "social" aspects of the job of ruling, while Endymion handles the more technical aspects of it. So, she recieves the people, hears out their concerns, does the public speaking and rallies people to her causes (because they love her), etc. and Endymion is the one yelling at the Diet for not getting stuff done and pushing paperwork (and stamping NQS' name on documents because she's not interested in signing all of the paperwork) and generally monitering ministers and security. Serenity's the figure-head, and Endymion's the muscle.

No one said Endymion is a "decoration" and Usagi is the only one ruling o_o

And please do provide the greater evidences on Chiba. All the points, especially those that weigh out Tsukino. We're ready.

i was thinking, here in brazil it's VERY common for a woman to keep her surname and just add the husband's, and we don't have to put hyphens of anything.

like, my full name is big

1st name: Michele
surname: Dias Couto Bernardes
the Dias and the Couto both came from my mother's surname and the Bernardes comes from my father.

so, when if I do decide on changing my name when officially marrying next month (because we have a paper that says we live together and have a relationship as married), I'll be Michele Dias Couto Bernardes Segatti, so Usagi could be just Usagi Tsukino Chiba, and Mamoru as well, they could unite both last names.

I think it was earlier mentioned that in Japan it's impossible to have both surnames or keep two different.

Arguments pro Chiba:

- symbolical - as Chiba means "of Earth", it would show that they are both Earthlings (Usagi being Moon Princess would be symbolized by her taking name of Serenity)

- familial - Usagi has a brother, who would carry family surname. And for Mamoru giving up his surname would be cutting his last ties with his deceased parents.

- practical - Mamoru could have problems with having his papers recognized if he changed his surname.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

I think it was earlier mentioned that in Japan it's impossible to have both surnames or keep two different.

Arguments pro Chiba:

- symbolical - as Chiba means "of Earth", it would show that they are both Earthlings (Usagi being Moon Princess would be symbolized by her taking name of Serenity)

She may be an earthling, but she represents the Moon, as he does the Earth. Just because they're reborn on Earth doesn't take away what they represent. Otherwise you might as well take away Venus, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, etc. because they were all reborn on Earth, too.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

- familial - Usagi has a brother, who would carry family surname. And for Mamoru giving up his surname would be cutting his last ties with his deceased parents.

He has no family with them. He probably, to be honest, probably has no family at all. So, it really doesn't matter. It actually makes more sense for him to take on Tsukino because of this.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

- practical - Mamoru could have problems with having his papers recognized if he changed his surname.

That could be anyone in the world at that rate. Everyone has to go through a process and have adjustments made. So, that could include Mamoru

Moonlight Lady wrote:

I think it was earlier mentioned that in Japan it's impossible to have both surnames or keep two different.

I don't think it was stated that it was impossible, just it is very very uncommon.



And on another note, lets get this straight. This is in no way a Mamoru bashing thread nor is it an Usagi bashing thread. This is just a speculation on which last name you think the two would keep.

I strongly urge for all of you to keep this thread on topic and to not let it get into a debate over whether or not Mamoru or Usagi sucks. This is more a debate using logical reasoning and facts rather than personal feelings.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

Well, IMO there is more arguments for Chiba. Not only as his surname, but also as indication that Usagi was also born on Earth and is now Earthling.

And sorry, but for me idea of NQS ruling alone as matriarch and Mamoru serving as decoration is lack of appreciation of his character.

And IMO anime better shows how Usagi needs Mamoru, despite him not being powerful.

But that evidence is completed negated by the other side of the argument

"She is born on the Earth" thus Chiba is more appropriate is totally balanced and cancelled out with "She has the heritage of the Moon" and thus Tsukino is more appropriate. Both are completely valid reasoning and neither is stronger than the other so you have to take into consideration other aspects. No one said NQS is ruling alone either, they work together, its just the Queen has more of the power and control as her lineage is of females, regardless of being married, this is in-keeping with the pro-female messages in Sailor Moon. A matriarch does NOT have to rule alone. That is not the definition of the word. A family where the mother is in charge, even if she has a husband is a matriarch. A society where women make the decisions is a matriarch and Crystal Tokyo, where the Queen is in charge, since we know for sure that the bloodline of their royalty carries through the female is a matriarch.

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so Usagi could be just Usagi Tsukino Chiba, and Mamoru as well, they could unite both last names.

Technically, but they are Japanese, this is really just not done there. It's not normal, its about eight levels below "uncommon" and honestly just looks bizarre when you write it in Japanese. You might have this if they married a foreigner in a foreign country then returned to Japan. Think about how they would be saying it in Japanese, Tsukino Chiba Usagi. It just sounds silly for them. What is impossible is for them to keep different surnames. They cannot be Usagi Tsukino and Mamoru Chiba if they are married. They will either be Usagi Tsukino and Mamoru Tsukino or Usagi Chiba and Mamoru Chiba.

Though Shingo would probably carry on the family name, this isn't really the point. Mamoru has no bloodline and has no reason to carry a family name.

Hey guys, guys!

This doesn't really count as canon but in Parallel Sailor Moon... after Usagi is married, her last name, Chibiusa's last name and most importantly... Kousagi's last name is ... wait for it... wait for it.... TSUKINO! However we can't take this as hard evidence since its a separate canon, Ms. Takeuchi probably did not think in any depth of what their last names would be, Ami, Rei, Makoto and Minako all retain their normal last names, they are also strong females, but if anything it indicates that Naoko probably did not think about her being Usagi Chiba later in life.

Ok, it's driving me nuts, the Parallel Moon one (It's a silly cute story.). And I know it's a 'what surname would Usagi take thread...but All your reasons for Mamoru to take on the Tsukino name are pretty valid (doesn't mean I'll ever choose it but that's a personal headcanon.).

These reasons should also imply that Makoto, the one person in the group that is pretty much in the same position AS Mamoru, should not be Kino. Yet in parallel moon, her last name is Kino as is her mini me daughter. But, she's married and has no bloodline to speak of. No one came forward to claim her, basically the same as Mamoru- so why is it acceptable for her not to change her name if she's basically not bringing anything to the table, so to speak?

In fact, Rei and Ami have a stronger reasons to keep their last names then most, it seems, given their family backgrounds. (Rei's family not only owns a shrine, but I'm pretty sure her father changed his last name to Hino as I think that Granmpa Hino is the father of Rei's mother. Reasons why Rei's dad would do so was probably more to do with politics and being in favor with the people than anything else. Ami's mother is a well off Doctor, it seems more reasonable to be linked to a well known name of Dr.Mizuno than not.)


And there's no absolute way to know that either Makoto or Mamoru might have extended family somewhere or not. We're assuming they don't because they weren't claimed at any point we saw in their lives.

PGSM does a better job at this, sort of. The idea that Mamoru has a patron in Hina's father (thus him basically being in their debt and in turn him being engaged to her, which would mean he would change his last name to be part of that family and probably get into the business to help run it. Why did Hina's dad take him in? Maybe Hina's dad felt some obligation to Mamoru's father or something. Who knows? completely off topic.).

So the long winded question is:

Why is it acceptable for Makoto to keep her last name if she's in the same boat as Mamoru if you want to include Parallel Moon as a source?


(though, random note on a couple who took parts of their last names and combined them together to create a new one for both of them to take. It was like, Lovesong-something. I thought that was immensely cute and pretty romantic for them to do. Chitsukino? Tsukiba? (sounds silly I bet but it does sound cute.)