To all those people who think Mamoru does not love Usagi in the anime. I think its time you rewatch the entire series from start to finish. No skipping episodes. Not even that dinosaur one or that one where Nephrite attacks that photographing child that no one cared about because he needed a haircut.

I don't think anyone is doubting the fact that Mamoru loves Usagi. The poll shows that much. Like I said before, the problem I have is how the writers and animators are portraying it. Mamoru loves Usagi, that's a fact of the series. He's just a victim of terrible writing on his part which makes it difficult to see at times.

I don't think "terrible writing" would be a right term. IMO, the animators made some conscious decisions about portrayal of characters, including Mamoru. Of course, it's not in everybody's taste, but IMO the "bad writing" criticism shouldn't be thrown so easily as voicing displeasure.

Houyou no Senshi wrote:

Not even that dinosaur one or that one where Nephrite attacks that photographing child that no one cared about because he needed a haircut.

Was there a Mamousa moment in dinosaur one? Because in photographer I remember I loved it.

i have no idea XD i was just naming episodes that im not as fond of as others (i dont think Mamoru is even in that dinosaur episode, i dont remember him in it, i mean they WERE broken up then XD wouldnt make much sense for him to go on vacation with her

Moonlight Lady wrote:

I don't think "terrible writing" would be a right term. IMO, the animators made some conscious decisions about portrayal of characters, including Mamoru. Of course, it's not in everybody's taste, but IMO the "bad writing" criticism shouldn't be thrown so easily as voicing displeasure.

Yes, I do believe that they portrayed Mamoru the way he is very conciously, and I can see that their idea with him was to make him a bit quirky, a kind of awkward guy in contrast to Usagi's affectionate clingness, maybe in hopes of making him charming that way and of course for some comedy. But I personally find it to be bad writing because I feel they failed at what they were trying to portray.

And I thought you were naming specific moments, Houyou no Senshi.

EurAsianGirl wrote:

I was just pointing out to the Moonlight-Lady that Usagi WAS aware of Seiya's feelings by the end of the series, that little moment where she pretended not to know what they were talking about at the end was so that there wouldn't be an awkward moment, since everybody was there.

I don't really think she was pretending - IMO she was not aware of Seiya's feelings at the end, because for her this situation was really long over and she kinda forgot it during all what happened. She never had any feelings for Seiya and never did anything to entice him.

And everybody else, excluding Usagi, was aware of it. The awkwardness was caused by her not knowing.

EurAsianGirl wrote:

If he was really disappointed by the prospect he could've looked at least a little down, or explained to Usagi gently and had a nice discussion with her about the importance of getting her grades up and why they can't go out till she does, I'm all for tough love and really doing what's best for the person, but I thought the way Mamoru handled it, was like always, very cold and clumsy. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

If he started explaining her why she should up her grades, he would really sound as "fatherly" you accuse him of. I prefer it that way, because it's Usagi who decides to study more with her friends and Mamoru supports her.

Funfact: Often Asian girls will look for qualities reminiscent of their fathers in boyfriends. Not in a weird way or anything, my own Mother would say to me through most of my teen years that "what you want is a boyfriend like your Father". Usagi in an early episode even comments that she would want a boyfriend like her papa. (dont take that in the wrong way, guys). Though Usagi does respond badly to Mamoru sometimes for his less than intimate attitude in public, Usagi is usually not taking it to heart, when she does, there's usually a deeper set meaning, like when she feels threatened by other women (doesn't make Usagi the jealous type, it just means she feels inferior) or like when she thought he didn't remember her birthday.

Lets also not forget their anime age difference.

I don't think their anime age difference is so huge - about 4-6 years, and if R movie is to be taken under consideration, then no more than 4. It may be a little unusual when they are teens, but in ten years time, no one will notice.

IMO, not just Asian girls - it's quite natural to see parents' relationship as a model. And Kenji really seems to be a good husband (though as a father he is a little too overprotective for my taste).

As for fatherly and brotherly feelings - in familial and friends relationships there are many similar factors like in romantic love. But I think it very unlikely for young guy to fall for a girl in fatherly or brotherly love.

Louchan wrote:

Moonlight Lady wrote:

I don't think "terrible writing" would be a right term. IMO, the animators made some conscious decisions about portrayal of characters, including Mamoru. Of course, it's not in everybody's taste, but IMO the "bad writing" criticism shouldn't be thrown so easily as voicing displeasure.

Yes, I do believe that they portrayed Mamoru the way he is very conciously, and I can see that their idea with him was to make him a bit quirky, a kind of awkward guy in contrast to Usagi's affectionate clingness, maybe in hopes of making him charming that way and of course for some comedy.

Yes, I agree that it was probably their intention - and IMO the viewers are expected to sympathise with Mamoru, when Usagi acts embarrasingly. IMO, they never wanted to paint him in negative light, rather to show his nerending patience.

Louchan wrote:

Because if you're talking with someone you love and who also loves you back then it's to be expected that he pays you full attention when you're talking about something you feel is important. It hits even harder when that one special person, who you should be able to share your worries the most with, just doesn't seem interested in what you have to say.

But Usagi is able to share her worries with Mamoru - the fact that he doesn't always agree with them doesn't change it. If Mamoru was not interested in Usagi's worries, he would not bring Artemis to Luna at the end so they could make up.

Louchan wrote:

And it doesn't bother you if people are reading while you're talking to them? That's great, I suppose... but I really think it should bother you, because I feel it has to do with respect.

Well, most times I am the one with the book Sometimes one just must finish that chapter, you know.

I'm irritated when somebody is distracted by another person (even by phone or computer), but other activities are ok.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

Yes, I agree that it was probably their intention - and IMO the viewers are expected to sympathise with Mamoru, when Usagi acts embarrasingly. IMO, they never wanted to paint him in negative light, rather to show his nerending patience.

Yeah, I think so too, along with it being played for some humor, especially when Chibiusa was involved as well. They really loved making those scenes of Chibiusa and Usagi each tugging on Mamoru.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

But
Usagi is able to share her worries with Mamoru - the fact that he
doesn't always agree with them doesn't change it. If Mamoru was not
interested in Usagi's worries, he would not bring Artemis to Luna at the
end so they could make up.

But sharing your worries with someone is pointless if they aren't appearing to be paying attention. Because what you want is some kind of response, something that can comfort and reassure you. And like you said, Mamoru did respond, but it's the fact that he was so busy staring down into a book and it took a pull on his arm to make him do so is what really bothers me... but I've gone on about that enough now.
And... Mamoru brought Artemis to Luna at the end? I don't remember that... I just remember Artemis showing up on his own.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

Well, most times I am the one with the book Sometimes one just must finish that chapter, you know.

I'm irritated when somebody is distracted by another person (even by phone or computer), but other activities are ok.

Oh... Well, you know how I feel about it now, but if people around you seem to be okay with it then I guess there's no harm in it.

Louchan wrote:

And... Mamoru brought Artemis to Luna at the end? I don't remember that... I just remember Artemis showing up on his own.

I remember Artemis showing up, then Luna runs to him, then Usagi looks and sees that Mamoru's also there.

And on credits they are on double date They both got great guys.

Haha sorry Moonies Im alittle late but afcross I think Mmaoru Loves Usagi. He doesnt know how to show it but I know he loves her and will risk his live for hers. I think that shows alot. A good example is in epiosde 40 when Queen Beryl threw that sharp diamond to Usagi and Mamoru stood in front of it protecting her. I remeber watching the spanish version and he told her I remember everything now and Im happy I proteced you Usagi now you continue your life and find a guy who could love you omg I cried so much other examples are in the sailor r movie, episode 81,91,102 and much more. I believe if he didnt love her he wouldnt risk his life all the time for her. By doing that he shows his love for her I also agree that the writers portrayed him to be alittle more distant and show his affections when they werent around people. I never saw Mamoru as a father or brother figure I always thought they look good together. Remember guys opposites always attract and Mamoru and Usagi are good examples

SerenaChiba630, I also don't see this crush - I mean Usagi herself declared that she has just friendship for Seiya. This crush would serve no purpose but to cheapen
Mamoru and Usagi's love.


Yes, the finale of first season with Beryl is one of the most romantic scenes ever with Mamoru's words before dying. But he shows his love not only while protecting her - he looks at her as if she was the only woman in the world pasionately and devotedly. He rejects other people hitting on him. He talked with his ex to find out why Usagi got mad at him and he run to buy her present she wanted. And in Stars he becomes into public proposals and kisses.

I think that also his distress during breakup in R shows how much he's into her.

For important episodes, I would mention also 132 and 162.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

SerenaChiba630, I also don't see this crush - I mean Usagi herself declared that she has just friendship for Seiya. This crush would serve no purpose but to cheapen
Mamoru and Usagi's love.


Yes, the finale of first season with Beryl is one of the most romantic scenes ever with Mamoru's words before dying. But he shows his love not only while protecting her - he looks at her as if she was the only woman in the world pasionately and devotedly. He rejects other people hitting on him. He talked with his ex to find out why Usagi got mad at him and he run to buy her present she wanted. And in Stars he becomes into public proposals and kisses.


I think that also his distress during breakup in R shows how much he's into her.

For important episodes, I would mention also 132 and 162.

Yea I agree with you she never showed any signs that she liked Seiya and if she did it wasnt because she liked him it was because Like I said before in someway Seiya reminded her of Mamoru.. Yes your right there were so many girls after him and he only had eyes for his Usako Many Moonies might not see that like we do but I know Mamoru loves Usagi she's his world. I think without her he wouldn't be what he is in the Series.

Omg yesss I remember watching episode 55 when he broke up with her and how much it hurted him, you see in his eyes how much he hated to see Usagi cry or in episode 62 when she felt in to deep sleep and Mamoru awoke her with a beautiful kiss and in the end she thanked him and tells him she knew in her heart he still loved her and he said he didnt he quoted Our love is like a rose beautiful when in bloom but it cant last forever" it was hurtful but we knew that he had to say that to keep his Usagi from Dying , and remember in the very end we see him on a bridge i think crying for the first time Does he havtta prove more his love for Usagi we know he truly loves her

I did forget to mention those 2 episodes where he also proves his love to her and yess in epsiode 173 he does show more emotions and wasnt embarass to kiss her. I do think the only reason he didnt show his emotions before wasnt because he was embarass but he knew people would look at them weird because of the age difference, but when they were alone he did kiss her and tell her how much he meant to him. I cant think of any other way he could prove his love to her

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

I disagree with you guys I dont think Usagi had a crush on Seiya I always thought in some way Seiya reminded usagi of Mamoru. Remember guys episode 181 when they went on a date and when Seiya hugged Usagi his arms around her feeling protected by him reminded her of Mamoru the image of Mamoru hugging her came to her mind or in episode 194 when she saw seiya throw the red rose she automatically thought Mamoru came to her aid . Everything Seiya would do reminded Usagi of Mamoru maybe thats why all you Moonies thought Usagi had a crush on him.

Sweets, this is not the thread to talk about Usagi, Seiya, and Mamoru. That's a very heated discussion that belongs in the other thread.

I'm pretty sure we all think Usagi had a crush on Seiya from the provided screen caps from the Stars season, which is in the other thread, too so if you wanna go there and discuss it, go ahead.

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

I think without her he wouldn't be what he is in the Series.

Yes, she really changed his life, making him not lonely ever again (the purification scene of first season finale comes to mind) and he became better man for her.

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

Omg yesss I remember watching episode 55 when he broke up with her and how much it hurted him, you see in his eyes how much he hated to see Usagi cry or in episode 62 when she felt in to deep sleep and Mamoru awoke her with a beautiful kiss and in the end she thanked him and tells him she knew in her heart he still loved her and he said he didnt he quoted Our love is like a rose beautiful when in bloom but it cant last forever" it was hurtful but we knew that he had to say that to keep his Usagi from Dying , and remember in the very end we see him on a bridge i think crying for the first time Does he havtta prove more his love for Usagi we know he truly loves her

Yes, I'm glad that they did show him crying - it was heartbreaking.

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

I did forget to mention those 2 episodes where he also proves his love to her and yess in epsiode 173 he does show more emotions and wasnt embarass to kiss her. I do think the only reason he didnt show his emotions before wasnt because he was embarass but he knew people would look at them weird because of the age difference, but when they were alone he did kiss her and tell her how much he meant to him. I cant think of any other way he could prove his love to her

I don't think that age gap matters so such - it's probably about four years. He's just reserved and more in keeping with the social mores of the culture. Such shyness is kind of sweet for me, actually But after years of being together he got less reserved and also the long separation awaiting them made him more open publicly with his feelings.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

I think without her he wouldn't be what he is in the Series.

Yes, she really changed his life, making him not lonely ever again (the purification scene of first season finale comes to mind) and he became better man for her.

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

Omg yesss I remember watching episode 55 when he broke up with her and how much it hurted him, you see in his eyes how much he hated to see Usagi cry or in episode 62 when she felt in to deep sleep and Mamoru awoke her with a beautiful kiss and in the end she thanked him and tells him she knew in her heart he still loved her and he said he didnt he quoted Our love is like a rose beautiful when in bloom but it cant last forever" it was hurtful but we knew that he had to say that to keep his Usagi from Dying , and remember in the very end we see him on a bridge i think crying for the first time Does he havtta prove more his love for Usagi we know he truly loves her

Yes, I'm glad that they did show him crying - it was heartbreaking.

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

I did forget to mention those 2 episodes where he also proves his love to her and yess in epsiode 173 he does show more emotions and wasnt embarass to kiss her. I do think the only reason he didnt show his emotions before wasnt because he was embarass but he knew people would look at them weird because of the age difference, but when they were alone he did kiss her and tell her how much he meant to him. I cant think of any other way he could prove his love to her

I don't think that age gap matters so such - it's probably about four years. He's just reserved and more in keeping with the social mores of the culture. Such shyness is kind of sweet for me, actually But after years of being together he got less reserved and also the long separation awaiting them made him more open publicly with his feelings.

Yea remember in Sailor Moon R Movie where Usagi thinks about how Mamoru had told her that he had no family and was alone, she goes to comfort him and He tells her that shes her family now. I thought that was very sweet and we see how before Mamoru meat Usagi he was a lonely person who really didnt have any motive in life till he meat Usagi. Usagi is his motivation in life. Imagine a world without Usagi Mamoru wouldn't be the protective loving guy he is now. I believe even if he dated other girls it wouldn't be the same , they wouldn't offer the warmness and happiness Usagi gives him. We know what Mamoru loves about Usagi is her cheerfulness and the way she see's life

His age has always been a mystery to me some say hes 18 some 19 we know in the Manga hes 17 but in the anime they arent very clear they only say hes in college.

Yea I think its cute hows hes very shy to show his emotions in public. I find it funny how in some episodes when he tries to kiss Usagi he looks around to see that no one is watching..

Yeah...

Basically, if anyone doesn't think Mamoru truly loves Usagi in the anime needs to go rewatch the show. Because you must've been watching the wrong show in the first place.

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Yeah...

Basically, if anyone doesn't think Mamoru truly loves Usagi in the anime needs to go rewatch the show. Because you must've been watching the wrong show in the first place.

Agreed Lady Tuxedo but there many Fans who think Mamoru doesnt truly love her in the anime simply because he isnt romantic and doesnt really act like a real boyfriend in public but i think its because he's reserve but he truly does love her

As mean as it may be to say, I don't really class them as "fans" because they usually only know one continuality (probably English dub too) in terms of Sailor Moon and usually won't give anything else a chance (like PGSM and myus or even the manga).

These "fans" are obviously clueless and well, that's their loss, really.

Also, you don't have to be obnoxious when you're in a relationship and smothering. When you smother (like I'm sure some people want Mamoru to be like), that's how you put your relationship on a downward spiral.

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

As mean as it may be to say, I don't really class them as "fans" because they usually only know one continuality (probably English dub too) in terms of Sailor Moon and usually won't give anything else a chance (like PGSM and myus or even the manga).

These "fans" are obviously clueless and well, that's their loss, really.

Also, you don't have to be obnoxious when you're in a relationship and smothering. When you smother (like I'm sure some people want Mamoru to be like), that's how you put your relationship on a downward spiral.

I agree many just watch the Anime and saw Mamoru as jerk and kinda cold Towards Usagi but if you watch PGSM or read the manga hes completely different hes sweet porotective and shows much more emotions.

Haha many just wanted to see Mamoru romantic side and alittle smooching

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

Yea remember in Sailor Moon R Movie where Usagi thinks about how Mamoru had told her that he had no family and was alone, she goes to comfort him and He tells her that shes her family now. I thought that was very sweet and we see how before Mamoru meat Usagi he was a lonely person who really didnt have any motive in life till he meat Usagi. Usagi is his motivation in life. Imagine a world without Usagi Mamoru wouldn't be the protective loving guy he is now. I believe even if he dated other girls it wouldn't be the same , they wouldn't offer the warmness and happiness Usagi gives him. We know what Mamoru loves about Usagi is her cheerfulness and the way she see's life

Yessss, I love that scene. <3 In fact, I think the R movie portrayed Mamoru and his relationship with Usagi perfectly. They kept his sort of shy awkwardness around, but not in the same manner that many people (including myself) often found made Mamoru very unlikeable in the series. It was just the right amount of it and portrayed in the right manner. And then there was also the added depth to his feelings for Usagi, which I think were best portrayed during the "you're my family now, Usako" scene and the scene where he threw a rose at Fiore near the finale of the movie in order to protect Usagi. The latter I think was just a huge moment that I sadly don't see mentioned all that often. I mean, this guy used to be Mamoru's only friend in the world. Before he met Usagi, this guy was the only one who saved him from loneliness. We know from the TV series that Mamoru did have other friends from school and such, but they never seemed to be all that close to him, so I do believe he was very lonely before meeting Usagi. So I think Mamoru turning against Fiore in order to protect to Usagi was a huge deal.

All the feels. Just all the feels.

Still, even for R movie Mamoru still gets a lot of hate for looking around before kissing Usagi and stopping after realizing somebody's present...

And yes, "you're my family" was perfect. I wonder when it happenned- as it was flashback.

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

As mean as it may be to say, I don't really class them as "fans" because they usually only know one continuality (probably English dub too) in terms of Sailor Moon and usually won't give anything else a chance (like PGSM and myus or even the manga).

These "fans" are obviously clueless and well, that's their loss, really.

Well, yet the debate is about one continuality...

And what changes were made to Mamousa in English dub?

Louchan wrote:

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

Yea remember in Sailor Moon R Movie where Usagi thinks about how Mamoru had told her that he had no family and was alone, she goes to comfort him and He tells her that shes her family now. I thought that was very sweet and we see how before Mamoru meat Usagi he was a lonely person who really didnt have any motive in life till he meat Usagi. Usagi is his motivation in life. Imagine a world without Usagi Mamoru wouldn't be the protective loving guy he is now. I believe even if he dated other girls it wouldn't be the same , they wouldn't offer the warmness and happiness Usagi gives him. We know what Mamoru loves about Usagi is her cheerfulness and the way she see's life

Yessss, I love that scene. <3 In fact, I think the R movie portrayed Mamoru and his relationship with Usagi perfectly. They kept his sort of shy awkwardness around, but not in the same manner that many people (including myself) often found made Mamoru very unlikeable in the series. It was just the right amount of it and portrayed in the right manner. And then there was also the added depth to his feelings for Usagi, which I think were best portrayed during the "you're my family now, Usako" scene and the scene where he threw a rose at Fiore near the finale of the movie in order to protect Usagi. The latter I think was just a huge moment that I sadly don't see mentioned all that often. I mean, this guy used to be Mamoru's only friend in the world. Before he met Usagi, this guy was the only one who saved him from loneliness. We know from the TV series that Mamoru did have other friends from school and such, but they never seemed to be all that close to him, so I do believe he was very lonely before meeting Usagi. So I think Mamoru turning against Fiore in order to protect to Usagi was a huge deal.

Yea It was sucha cute scene especially where he tells Usagi your my family now Usako I remember Mamoru always being very distant and not as friendly as he is now. Having Usagi by his side opened him more. You see the light he has when hes around Usagi, usagi brings life to him without Her he would still be person he was before he met her. I completely agree Im a huge Mamo Chan Fan but sometimes I would find him very cold towards Usagi he would kiss her once or twice and wasnt very romantic but in R Movie He showed a completely different side still alittle shy but you saw how much Usagi meant to him .

Your completely right Louchan the scene where he threw the rose to Fiore showed how much he loved Usagi knowing the person your going to hurt was your best friend from childhood the one who saved you from loneliness was a big deal that one really mentions. I think for me and you it was. Turning your back on the first friend you ever had to protect your love one shows alot you cant say Mamoru doesnt love Usagi. Mamoru can sometimes be reserve and alittle shy at times but we truly know he loves Usagi. Usagi is everything to him. Like I said before Usagi is his Motivation in life

[quote="Moonlight Lady"]Still, even for R movie Mamoru still gets a lot of hate for looking around before kissing Usagi and stopping after realizing somebody's present...

And yes, "you're my family" was perfect. I wonder when it happenned- as it was flashback.

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

As mean as it may be to say, I don't really class them as "fans" because they usually only know one continuality (probably English dub too) in terms of Sailor Moon and usually won't give anything else a chance (like PGSM and myus or even the manga).

These "fans" are obviously clueless and well, that's their loss, really.

[/quote

Well, yet the debate is about one continuality

It was a pretty funny scene but I always wonder why would he look around was he worried people would say something or he was just reserved ?

And what changes were made to Mamousa in English dub?

Moonlight Lady wrote:

And what changes were made to Mamousa in English dub?

Apparently there was a bit of changes between UsaMamo in the English dub. Like, how they interacted (things they said, etc.)

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Moonlight Lady wrote:

And what changes were made to Mamousa in English dub?

Apparently there was a bit of changes between UsaMamo in the English dub. Like, how they interacted (things they said, etc.)

Lady Tuxedo you are right I've seen both the Spanish and English version of the Anime and there are alot of changes

Our version did add some love declarations for Usagi.

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

Imagine a world without Usagi Mamoru wouldn't be the protective loving guy he is now. I believe even if he dated other girls it wouldn't be the same , they wouldn't offer the warmness and happiness Usagi gives him. We know what Mamoru loves about Usagi is her cheerfulness and the way she see's life

Another big yes - IMO the greatest proof of his love is that he changed himself for her

SerenaChiba630 wrote:

I remember Mamoru always being very distant and not as friendly as he is now. Having Usagi by his side opened him more. You see the light he has when hes around Usagi, usagi brings life to him without Her he would still be person he was before he met her. I completely agree Im a huge Mamo Chan Fan but sometimes I would find him very cold towards Usagi he would kiss her once or twice and wasnt very romantic but in R Movie He showed a completely different side still alittle shy but you saw how much Usagi meant to him .

I actually believe that they kissed a few times more off-camera. It's hinted in Unazuki's episode in S and also in SuperS Chibiusa sees them together in his apartament, though it's blink-and-you-miss moment...