If Mamoru stayed in Japan or at least was alive and in contact with Usagi, I don't see her as having reason to have close friendship with Seiya. It was a substitute.

Usagi became stronger, more thoughtful, more mature and more devoted with Mamoru. I can't see her at this time as being oblivious to her own feelings (to somebody else's yes)

If Mamoru had stayed in Japan or was at least alive and had contact with Usagi, I don't see that at all as a reason to say she wouldn't have had a close relationship to Seiya. That's like saying she isn't allowed to have any male friends because she's with Mamoru. I'm pretty sure Usagi would still be friends with Seiya (and good ones) and friends with Taiki and Yaten as well. Especially since they were, obviously, important to a point in the story-line. Usagi and Seiya click, whether people like it or not. That's how it was written in the anime. I mean, yes you can interpret it your own way, but they do click. You'd be lying to yourself if you said they didn't. It's not like a seriously forced relationship that developed, either.

It's not that Usagi's not allowed to have male friends (and Mamoru isn't possesive or jealous), but I don't see her spending her time with Seiya outside of the school when an alternative would be being with Mamoru. And of course them being alone in her house would be out of the question.

Besides, I wouldn't call Taiki and especially Yaten Usagi's friends.

Well now we're getting wrapped up in Usagi is only ever with Mamoru or the senshi and she therefore wouldn't have any other friends...

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Well now we're getting wrapped up in Usagi is only ever with Mamoru or the senshi and she therefore wouldn't have any other friends...

Luckily for Seiya, he's a senshi as well ;3

Topic:

I like the idea of Usagi and Seiya whether they be in a romantic relationship or a friendship. Yes, I believe Usagi began the relationship out of loneliness; she wants and needs some one to love. But over time, her feelings grew for him.

Also, Seiya would have been drawn to Usagi even with Mamo around, and she to him. They are both senshi, and because of her strength and love, other senshi besides the ones in her own system are drawn to her.

Well I could go either way because I really like what Mamoru is supposed to be but Seiya is such a likeable person. I swear I fell for Seiya/Sailor Star fighter because of his/her personality and I really liked how Usagi didn't care about him being famous at first and just treated him like a normal guy. Plus Mamoru didn't really build up to be a character I would admire, there is just nothing about him that sticks out to me. In the manga he is kind of withdrawn I would say and In the anime he is a little different but Seiya is just the kind of guy I would rather know then Mamoru because he is outgoing and awesome. I believe that everybody makes their own destiny and that there is no predetermined fate for anybody. I honestly like both UsagiXMamoru and UsagiXSeiya, I just prefer the personality of Seiya over Mamoru. But I can't decide who is better for Usagi or even which character I like better for Usagi. So I am neutral when it comes to their relationship because I really like both they show two different sides of a coin in the same relationship I believe.

Well, I prefer Mamoru's personality, but it's not I don't like Seiya. Only not with Usagi. Even just as her friend he's too pushy.

I like when he's in contact with someone, who can't be exhausted by him - like sister Angela (not in shippy sense).

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Well now we're getting wrapped up in Usagi is only ever with Mamoru or the senshi and she therefore wouldn't have any other friends...

But Usagi and rest even when they meet new friends, it's usually in the group.

And the most important issue is whether Usagi with Mamoru by her side would feel motivated to develop closer friendship with Seiya and I don't see it. I can't imagine Usagi spending time on baseball training if she could be at the time with Mamoru in the park or at his apartament.



I think that the whole point of Seiya plot was to show how the void caused by the you loved can't be filled by anybody else.

Man, there is no such thing as a perfect person. Seiya has flaws -.-

I think Seiya serves more than one purpose; the "what if" question is one of them. Because Usagi is human. She is capable, like others, of loving multiple people for different reasons.

I also feel at the same time, though I of course ship Usagi and Seiya (and I do ship Usagi and Mamoru too), I can also see Seiya as something that demonstrates Usagi's and Mamoru's love; no one else can take the other's place.

And I also think Seiya show's Usagi's human side because she should have a life outside of the senshi and Mamoru. She should. So Mamoru present or not, I think she'd still be drawn to Seiya at least in a friends only way and would spend time with Seiya too. Mamoru should/does have a life of his own too. He doesn't sit around all day waiting for Usagi to be done with school for the day and all that. He has school and things going on too. It's healthy for their relatioship. Doing other things, not just spending time with the other is good and healthy.

So Seiya holds multiple purposes I think. Which, I honestly think is great because Usagi, hell, even the senshi and Mamoru should retain as much as they can their normal human lives that they can until they can no longer do that

But Seiya is a Senshi as well? I mean...Usagi has life outside of the senshi. Its spending time with them because they are friends.

Also there are some couples who just prefer to spend their time together almost all the time. Thats how me and my fiance are. We do things together because we want to do them together not because we feel we have too. I think thats how Usagi and Mamoru are to some degree. I think in the other seasons she does a good job of doing other things than spend time with Mamoru, you see that a lot in the SuperS season.

I meant *her* senshi

And you have a point there ^^

Yes, nobody's perfect, but Seiya's flaws are especially negative for somebody like Usagi - his lack of boundaries requires great deal of assertiveness she does not possess.

And I don't really see "what if" with Usagi and Seiya, she's Mamoru's man through and through. Therefore I really dislike the idea of a love triangle in Stars, cause there isn't any. Usagi loves everybody, but Mamoru is her one and only.



I also don't see Usagi as being drawn to Seiya - he is the one who makes first, second, third and next moves. She accepts it and kind of enjoys his company, but there is really no attraction.

In SuperS when Usagi isn't with Mamoru she usually talks about him, thinks about him or wonders whether he's cheating on her I'm all for normal human lifes - I strongly support girls getting boyfriends - but IMO in normal human life Usagi is exactly as Mamoru-centric. I've told already she's not a model for female empowerment

Okay first, there is no love triangle o_o second, yes Seiya is a what if scenerio because it shows Usagi's human side when it comes to love; how she is capable of falling (EVEN IF IT'S SLIGHT) for another, just like people sometimes find themselves in. Authors do like to explore a little bit and place ideas for "what if" situations with their characters. Usagi is not exempt from this. I really feel you're just taking the firmest stance for Usagi and Mamoru, and that's fine, but I'm sure Naoko did what she did in regard to Usagi and Seiya to play around and just see. Just for fun. That doesn't mean Usagi and Mamoru are not forever or anything like that, but it's just to see something else, show Usagi's human side, things like that

But honestly, you're basically sounding like you watched Stars blindly because you are very firm on Usagi and Mamoru. And yeah that's fine too, I suppose XD

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

but I'm sure Naoko did what she did in regard to Usagi and Seiya to play around and just see. Just for fun.

But Naoko had like no say in the anime? And there was barely ANY relationship in the manga. It was purely one sided and it was mostly seiya being like "she reminds me of our princess..." at least from what I remember.

I quit. I don't really have much more to say on the topic anyway. I feel like I've beat this horse to death and it is beyond dead XD

BUT! This is about the anime, not the manga >.>

LOL I know, but i had to point out that Naoko had not much say in the anime therefore that point was moot that you made.

Also you can like all of the Usagi x Seiya's you want. And i totally understand some of your arguments, but i just can only see them as really good friends. xD

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Okay first, there is no love triangle o_o second, yes Seiya is a what if scenerio because it shows Usagi's human side when it comes to love; how she is capable of falling (EVEN IF IT'S SLIGHT) for another, just like people sometimes find themselves in. Authors do like to explore a little bit and place ideas for "what if" situations with their characters. Usagi is not exempt from this. I really feel you're just taking the firmest stance for Usagi and Mamoru, and that's fine, but I'm sure Naoko did what she did in regard to Usagi and Seiya to play around and just see. Just for fun. That doesn't mean Usagi and Mamoru are not forever or anything like that, but it's just to see something else, show Usagi's human side, things like that

But honestly, you're basically sounding like you watched Stars blindly because you are very firm on Usagi and Mamoru. And yeah that's fine too, I suppose XD

Well, yes, I said that I'm firm Mamoru/Usagi shipper and it may have a little influenced my perception.

Still, I believe that Seiya/Usagi pairing does great disservice to Usagi's character. I don't see her falling for Seiya, even slightly. For me, it wouldn't make her human, but rather shallow and flighty. I'm irritated with her friends, who believed her capable of cheating on Mamoru or leading Seiya on. Ironically, Mamoru seemed to have no problem with Seiya at the end, which shows that on Usagi's side it was completely innocent.

And IIRC in manga Seiya did kiss Usagi?

She did, but it was kinda akin to the way Sailor Uranus kissed Usagi. At least thats how i remember that scene.

Yes, in manga Usagi got plenty of non-Mamoru kisses...

There were also the scenes of Seiya sending her postcards from Mamoru.

Yeah but he was just trying to help her remember that Mamoru was dead. It wasn't like a "I love you" thing.

But thats kinda apart from the discussion. Because in other versions of Sailor Moon there is really no SeiyaxUsagi to go with other than being friends. The anime is what really brought that into play.

And why do you think?

Why do i think what? This discussion is supposed to be about the anime version of sailor moon since you really can't bring the usagixseiya element into play with the other versions of SM. The manga it wasn't really played out and it was more of a "you look like our princess so i want to help you" and the Myus there was like no romantic relationship whatsoever. Just friendship. Seiya was really more serious in the myus and anime and more intent on finding Kakyuu.

I meant - why in anime Seiya was given this romantic version?

I told you. For fun. For like "what if" purposes. Even if like Naoko wasn't part of it, maybe the creators wanted to have a little fun with it. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that couldn't be a reason.

I mean why not?

It's like that suggestive picture with Usagi and Minako that Naoko drew up. Do people ship them now? Yes. Is that what Naoko was aiming for? No. It was just for fun. Nothing more, nothing less. To display her artwork, to display her characters in a sexy manner, to just have fun.

But hey, you never know. None of us know. Maybe, along with the fun, she wanted to do a "what if" with Usagi and Minako. The only ships really set in stone are Usagi and Mamoru and Haruka and Michiru. There is no other official pairings really.

Maybe it was because they hated mamoru so much and liked Seiya better. The Starlights were really popular in japan so that might have been why too.

I can definitely see that XD not that there's anything wrong with Mamoru, but it's grounds for them.

There are also canon pairings of Naru-Umino, Motoki-Reika, Ali-Anna and first and foremost - Luna and Artemis

The problem with "for fun" theory is that all in all it added to Usagi's stress and discomfort during that season.

(OT- Mamoru hate really baffles me...)

So? These things really do happen to people in real life. Hence the human factor I stated and you dismissed. It may not have happened to you (it hasn't happened to me either) but that doesn't mean this doesn't happen to people. Same if you don't like it; so? XD it still happends.

Moonlight Lady wrote:

The problem with "for fun" theory is that all in all it added to Usagi's stress and discomfort during that season.

That's because when something like that happens to you, it is stressful. It's happened to me before.

For a season to be successful, there need to be a few points of conflict for the protagonist to overcome. The conflicts should include outside and internal conflicts. Seiya's feelings for Usako are both. She has to deal with someone who isn't in the future she taking an interest in her. Some people have to deal with others who want a special relationship with them while they themselves have their own special person. In the end, it only strengthened her relationship with Mamoru. She was tempted but didn't give in.

Thank you, Cupcake