Now on all the forums I have been a part of there have always been means of "adopting/bonding/marrying" people who mean a lot to you in life. This is something I have always wanted to incorporate in to this forum. As we have reached a large enough number of people these things are starting to form on their own.

Now, as fun and as care free as I can be, I also take this very very seriously. I met my husband on an online forum, I met my best friend, who is now so much a part of my family that she has lived with us, and I have gone to stay with her for over a month. I met these people due to bonds/adpotions on forums.


This will be discussed with the Admin, but I would like to know the general thoughts on if the members would like this to be looked at.


Here is the jist of that I want to create. Both members have to be Seniors. And once both have reached that they would have to go through a small process to Adopt a sibling, or to Marry a member of the forums. The process would follow something like the two (or more members) interested in formalizing this bond would be required to send in a small paragraph explaining why they would like to adopt/marry this person, and another what they know of the person ( and not just like fave colors and middle name) but like how well do you actually know them, like what they do for a living, what they want to actually do for a living, favorite jokes, what are their views on life, etc.

My reason for being adamant about including something like this is to promote two things, A) That internet friendships are real, the people are real, and that it shouldn't be taken lightly because it diminishes that of the other people who take it seriously. B) Being I want to maintain a some what stonger sense of unity and kinship and I don't want that tarnished by willy nilly flippant people who could possibly abuse this. (Bond whores so to speak), who can claim a large number of people as "family" and rub it in other people's faces, and this in turn causes drama.


Now can I get a show of how many people would like to see this?


- Lady Neo Queen Serenity
Founder

Pardon me if my thoughts are not as clear and concise as I would prefer them to be.

I have actually never encountered this on any forum on which I've participated, though my experience my be relatively limited in comparison to some of our other members. At a glance, I am ambivalent about the concept. Perhaps ambivalent is not as specific as I would like: uneasy is probably more accurate. Speaking bluntly, I feel as though it trivializes terms such as "bonding" or "marrying" while running the risk of flaunting certain social relationships, so to speak. By flaunting, I mean showing off in a way as to seize everyone's attention. I'm probably going to come off as an "old fashioned" or "conservative" (not in the political sense of the term) in saying that if I have a friend or person I truly enjoy talking to on the forum, I let my words carry that weight. This is not to suggest that those who like or have used this system are empty in their gestures, but to formally define this process with titles feels somewhat... isolating, to a degree; as if to say, "I have claimed this person; now we possess a special relationship which is closed to the rest of forum." I am most certain this is not the intent; but intent and perception can quickly diverge.

Maybe it's just my connotations with the terms mentioned here, fueled by my unfamiliarity with the concept. I'm not completely alienated to the idea; I'm perhaps just seeing the potential for perceived alienation at the moment.

Spoons, it's already happening on the site, and will probably continue in some means or another. I've been on 3 forums for a length of 3 + years, one of them as Admin. In female heavy societies I found that these things happen over time really.. this is more a means to prevent it from some people getting carried away and saying EVERYONE is MY family and you can't have any family etc... It's a way to make sure it's a more serious business, and Isn't treated in a flaunting or popularization manner.

I really like the idea, it's a very common thing that happens on naruto viz, with 'fourm familys' and 'marrages' and things like that.

I'm hesitant, because it sounds like it could potentially induce drama. But, just like spoons, I have little to no experience with this idea, so my hesitancy is not well-founded. I think the reason I have not encountered this before is that this is my first fan forum. I've only participated in RPGs until recently. If other members that have had experience with this idea says it does not tend to induce drama... then I think it sounds like a neat idea.

I agree with V chan and Spoons, not sure if I like that idea. I'm hesitated because I'm afraid it'll cause drama. To me it sounds like a "classic formula" for site drama, actually. Can't we all just be friends? Does it really matter if someone is one's brother or sister or wife or whatever?

And I don't say these relationships are not real just because they're on the net, because they are. I met my very new recent boyfriend on the net and we love each other deeply. But then again, we don't really show it off in front of people and we dont feel a need to say to the entire world like, "HEY LOOK|! I HAVE A WIFE/HUSBAND AND YOU DONT!!!!!" (which yeah, ive been in forums which had it in the past, and that gave me that feeling, but that might be just me). What I'm trying to say here is that yeah, these relationships are cool and nice and very real too, but they don't depend on a status on a board, or in whether you tell the entire world or not. If it's real it's something more deep.

Plus, as I said before, it's kind of a classic formula for drama. I've been in situations in sites in which certain people took it way too far and it was really disturbing (lets just say they treasted me like a real baby and did certain adult things that made me feel uncomfortable), and it makes other people feel bad if a person they feel like they're related to picks someone else over them or I dunno.

I really think it's not really needed, we can just be friends and love each other and be like a little comunity like before.

But that's just my little opinion, eventually it'll be Her Highness to decide. *takes a bow*

Queenie, if you have any solutions to the difficulties I pointed above I'd gladly hear it, and who knows? I might give it a chance too. :3

But as of now I'm really hesitated about this idea.

As I have already said, it is already happening, I'm not initiating this, merely setting up a guideline, and rules. It would be more in depth than what I listed in my cursory statement of course.

By having standards and letting people know the rules (which yes, there would be rules on flaunting, shaming, etc) I'm attempting to guide and structure something that is already going to happen on here unless we go in the opposite direction and abolish it instead. And I honestly wouldn't EVER do that on my Forum. #1 that is not what Sailor Moon is about. And #2. I don't want fear to get in the way of something I know works and has changed my life.


I speak from experience when I say that there will be drama in anything that you do. However I haven't ever experienced drama personally, or known of any with my friends when it came to this. I am "bonded/adopted" to 5 people on another site, and that is a very serious thing. I've been immersed in it, and gone through processes similar myself.

Just think of these as more "formalized" names that people would apply to be able to use (ie sisters, brother, wifey) would merely be an extension of what is already there.


I also want to make it clear that I would in no way limit the number of people you could have in your family. However, that fact that just by having a "process" and "rules" regarding this will hopefully off put the less serious people who are more inclined to create drama.


Honestly, We have been open 7 months, Have I ever A) added something I wasn't experienced in, or knowledgeable on? and B) Has there ever been fights? public drama? name calling? Mod Godding? Power abuse? Anything that leads you guys to believe that I A) instigate things with drama, or B) That we ALLOW that kind of mentality?

To be honest, what I've seen so far is that we DON'T attract people who are prone to drama. And if we do get some one prone to drama, then they have to be a member on the site for over 3 months before they can bond/adopt/marry some one, and I think by that point they would have either gotten their act together, or lost interest in a site where they don't get a reaction from the people.

Hm, well I have no adversion to the concept in general. As you already know, Elly and I got "married" here on the forum but it was not to prove a point or claim some one or create a big deal. I think it is cute when two people just CLICK so awesomely and they want to say, "We're married!" I actually got the idea from you, NQS and your tumblr wifey.

But to me, this is a light hearted manner and fun and certainly not stating "This person and I are closer than anyone and have a closer bond than the rest of you." I teasingly state that Alala is my "little sister" and in Kayla's "Royal Family" post, I am her Auntie. To me these are playful declarations of affection and certainly not meant to stir any drama whatsoever --- to be honest, I do not know why it would cause drama to begin with.

I think this is a cute idea but if it were to become riddled with rules and all, then it certainly takes the light hearted fun out of it all. To say that only senior members can form official bonds also seems rather elitist and I never like anything like that. I think that anyone who wants to adopt or marry some one here at the GC should feel welcome and free to do so -- with or without an announcement, declaration or approval.


I understand your concern in preventing drama, NQS, indeed I do! However I do not think that official guidelines need to be stated to prevent such from occurring. Some people may want to adopt each other playfully and others more seriously, but again, I think people should feel free to do so without having it slighted by the notion of having to make it serious and forum official.

I don't think there should be any drama about it, if two people are ``married`` together on GC, I don't feel it necessarly means they are not available for the other people on the forums and of course, I think it is only cute to see people can find true friendship or love through the internet.

I personally don't feel uncomfortable with the idea, but I understand some people may feel uncomfortable with it and the final decision to show or not show that affection between two people is not really up to me.

Jupiter - I believe if we leave things as we are that it's highly likely that down the road it will likely get out of hand honestly, as I HAVE seen both restricted and unrestricted adoptions/etc. I know you are against any restrictions on anything regarding things that other don't have a right to interfere with, however, I would like to point out that it's likely that since every one wants to be nice, that almost every one will end up in a "family", even if they are in reality uncomfortable with the idea because they have no reason to say no to some one when they let others in already.

Right now it's more a deciding point of, do we want every one to just be a happy family, which may cause drama in that was as in every family, or do we want to just make it "slightly" more serious so people can have a more "official" special connection. (which may I add again, ISN'T restricted on the number of people you have).


I know I am one of those people who Do highly value being able to "claim" NOT FLAUNT a relationship with X person. I DO take internet things on the more serious side, because I know it leads to unbreakable real world friendships that to real life interaction.

Personally, being blunt, I'm far more inclined to make an effort to do a "family" get together if it's not all 300 members of of the forum as family, because I DON'T know all the people here, and at that point it would turn into an awkward, oh, who are you on the forums? oh that's cool!! I barely know anything about you...


I will go with the general consensus from people on here, however, if fear is the predominant issue around here, I will do everything in my persuasive powers to dispel it because I refuse to be held back by mass social panic of the unknown.

I've been a regular member on a pretty good share of forums and I've never seen any of this family/marriage stuff outside of the occasional joking around? Maybe I've just been active in the wrong forums, I dunno. Where I've been we've always been fine making friends without any official titles.

I think it seems like something that's better off just done between members without any policing or guidelines from mods (unless it leads to actions that break site rules, of course). I'm pretty sure our members can handle just doing it amongst themselves with signatures and whatnot without any fancy official stuff. That and there's probably more productive things staff could do than come up with an official system for something that's coming along just fine on its own.

Either way, that's my two cents o 3o I probably won't participate whether it becomes an official thing or not, to be honest.

I do like the idea and I don't want my unfamiliarity with the idea to prevent me from participating. I just wanted to let you know that I do have hesitancies, but that I trust your judgement (and the judgement of others), because you are familiar with this idea. I know I am paranoid about people knowing who I am, but I don't think that this idea would endanger me or anyone else in any way. This doesn't seem like an unsafe idea, just something fun and maybe a little on the silly side. I think if the proper precautions are taken, as you intended to do NQS, then this should be fun and enjoyable for all.

^^" I've never really done a family thing... but ever since joining I've just assumed and mentally assigned different members different roles that were not based on family, but more on the social structure I'm used to seeing in Japan...

For instance, Jupiter has always been my sempai in my eyes - a super helpful and fun upperclassmen. Many of the first generation admins on here were sempais, while I saw the Lady and Cosmos more like sensei - deserving of a ton of respect and admiration. People who joined before and after me were those I just automatically assumed to be on my level or my kohai, depending both on age and experience.

Then, going on what they posted, what I agreed with, and who gained my respect, some were just automatically elevated to either my class level, else turned to sempai as well or left where they were.

But, to me, even when I feel like I've pretty much adopted someone and taken them under my wing, so to speak, or feel so in-tune with someone that I considered them my classmate, I don't think I'd ever do something like actually labeling them "my daughter" or "my sister" as assigning familial roles has always made me squeamishly uncomfortable.



I love seeing people do mock marriage proposals on tumblr, and calling each other 'Waifu' or "Husbando" or referring to others as their 'wifey,' but I think that's because I've never actually clicked on their blog to see if they have that person referenced in their 'about me' section. And even so, seeing a 'waifu' or 'husbando' reference would be so much better to me than writing "Mother" "Father" Sister" and whatever because it completely calls back to playing house as a 4-year-old and I really dislike watching people act like babies. ((Myu from Elfin Lied almost make me quit the entire series)).
I adore Jupiter and Elly's signatures, but I would be so incredibly creeped out if people started listing "family members" in their signatures. I could avoid a board or area where that stuff is referenced, but if I see it all over the place I'm likely to get so frustrated I'd pitch a fit and blow up.

Referencing the bonds casually is something i find to be just fine, as it comes naturally and usually isn't something that people sign up for and BAM, suddenly are. If it's not listed, then the two really have to be compatible and actually had to have some sort of common experiences that tie them together. If someone has to look at a list to remember how that person is imaginarily related to them, THEY SHOULDN'T BE IMAGINARILY RELATED. >C


Ahem. ... so, I'm cool with having wifu's and husbando's and wifeys, but polygamy would cheapen the deal. I dislike seeing written imaginary familial ties, but if it has to be written I would prefer no family trees in signatures so I could avoid the hullabaloo. I think that might lessen the braggery part of it, as well.


... and I think I'll go on sempai- and kohai-ing until I die and might eventually take on an official 'kohai', but I don't think I'd ever call someone a 'daughter' or 'son' ... unless I have a waifu and that person is like the two of us combined, like that whole Glee deal with the two girls and the one girl that everyone wants to be their daughter from the future. 'Cause that's awesome.


XD And that's my two cents.

Neo Queen Serenity wrote:

I will go with the general consensus from people on here, however, if fear is the predominant issue around here, I will do everything in my persuasive powers to dispel it because I refuse to be held back by mass social panic of the unknown.

Without striving to be abrasive, an argumentum ad populum (argument to popularity) is not a sufficient rebuttal to a slippery slope fallacy. In other words, to assert that the popular usage and acceptance of a concept overrides the fear that such a concept will inevitably lead to the worst possible scenario does not make the former argument inherently better and more logically sound. Conversely, to highlight the worst fringe cases in order to undermine popular consensus is an insufficient argument as well. My concern rests with understanding this social system, the framework in which it would be expanded, and how it would enrich the forum on the whole. How does it provide the maximum amount of good for the community? Will everyone---or most everyone---foster the same concept of what it means to "marry" or "adopt" a person online? These are unclear to me, and I am quite certain there are a few members here who are unfamiliar with this system and perhaps may be uncomfortable with the notions which it espouses.

Succinctly stated, does this make the forum better? Does it make it a place where people want to belong?

I will admit that my uneasy feelings for this system are partially due to my lack of familiarity; another source of my anxiety is slightly more personal, and I would prefer not to drag our respective personal baggage into this conversation for a variety of reasons. These things having been admitted, I don't feel as if my responses thus far---or the ambivalent responses on the whole---have been driven by a strong, unrelenting reactionary streak. My sense, and I cannot speak for others here, is that we're dancing around the cases in which this system potentially isolates members because it draws clear and distinct markers between them. It is doubtless that no member will know everyone on this forum in an intimate and personal manner, yet that can be said of an actual family: you may not know all of them or interact with all of them equally, but you will treat them with a common respect. What we understand, however, is that these are social norms; I am not entirely convinced online "marriage"/"adoption"/"siblings" is a natural extension of these norms, despite the borrowed terms.

Therefore, I am not seeking to dwell on the worst case scenarios, although it is helpful to remain mindful of the implications of the worst cases. Indeed, you cannot administer a forum or govern a body of people effectively while constantly seeking not to fail, because inevitably you will hit a rut which requires resilience. Consider, however, the general make up of an online forum's membership and the dynamics in play. I have previously administered a forum as well, and I know firsthand that handling the social scene is tricky business. Explicit as rules may be, the implicit comprehension is always up for grabs. I think the creation of rules and standards may implicitly cement the execution of this system rather than merely act as guidelines for those who like it. Members might be inclined to see joining this system as a necessity so as not to be left out. And to state---though I do not mean to imply anyone has said this here---that it is the fault of the people who do not understand or take part in this runs an enormous risk of trivializing their concerns, especially when, frankly speaking, there are a fair number of introverts on the internet.

With that having been said, I get the impression this system will be permitted in one form or another. Furthermore, I understand the desire to create a formalized system from the outset rather than wait until it potentially gets out of control. I respect the decisions made by the staff here, and I have no desire to begin telling other members how to conduct their business with one another so long as it respects the forum community as a whole. But I do view there to be a difference between vertical divisions (i.e., hierarchy) and horizontal divisions (i.e., subgroups). And I would argue that people come to online forums very often with the expectation of the former in order to escape the latter. As such, this may serve as an explicit reminder that these horizontal divisions exist and, in the view of some, that in order to socially thrive you will need to play by these rules.

It may appear as if I am embracing a form of social communism (not political Marxism), and I probably am. I don't pretend, however, that certain members are not friendlier with each other and the relationship of the whole community is the same across the board. It's natural that members will create special bonds with one another which are not equally distributed. But I'm not convinced at the moment that public declarations are a boon to the forum.

There is certainly more which could be said and should be said, but I've dropped enough words down for one post.

@ Ella - Please be assured, there is plenty behind the scenes we are working on to make things runs smoothly and finally get this forum up to its full capacity. Forgive me if I thought bringing this up for public discussion before adding it to the other list of things we Admin discuss in private to work on would be more beneficial in the long run to see if it WAS something worth our time.

@Kyra - I'm more intending to semi prevent that from happening (the whole, I claim every one and every one is so and so in my family) by adding more meaning to it than every one willy nilly claiming every body. However, people would be allowed to do what they wished with Siggies. And the inclusion of family/wifey/etc in them is going to happen no matter the decision here.


@ Spoons - I fully respect your hesitancy in believing that this could in fact create the opposite affect of what the intended "guidance" was meant to do.

I'll be honest, this is the second resistance, (from a group as a whole, not any one person) to an issue I've brought up on new things I'd like to incorporate into this forum, that's biggest "con" has been, "well I've never done it, so I'm afraid it will cause drama for X reason". Both things I've brought up and/or had previously planned to incorporate where things in which I was highly familiar with both as an admin and as a regular person just visiting an online location of people with a similar interest. Since I did however "grow up" on the forums I frequent with the notion already explained, in place and practiced, it's hard for me to explain in a way to some one who hasn't ever done it. Much like explaining how to breath to a fish on land. Based on the majority of people's comments saying, "I've never seen this before so I don't know", this leads me to believe that it's more fear of the unknown, or that since it's something they can't imagine, that it might lead to drama. We all know drama is prevelant on the internet, especially in the SM fandom. I have taken a very strong stance against drama from day one and I would like to think that I haven't lead this forum astray from that purpose and stance as we have gone alone. If you are hesitant to go along with something that causes fear of drama because you don't know what it is, then please understand that I am hesitant to just let the masses say, "we don't know what this is, so lets not do it" and move it. This doesn't inspire growth. And I'm not just talking about this issue, since it's not honestly a huge change, but any other "new or foreign" thing I may want to introduce. I don't want the people here as a whole to never let anything change because never saying, "ok we can try it, let's give it a try, and if we don't like it, we can always change the rules," leads to things falling flat, or people never knowing if something that could be awesome.

I agree that you could interrupt this addition, or "controlled" guidelines as a way for people to see this inclusion as new "social divisions". It's not intended, nor will I think it will, to make people feel "forced" to have an adoptee, or have to go through with this to feel cool. The only way this would come about is we allowed excessive flaunting, or exccessive posts of "I love you sisssyyyyy!!!!11!1 *snuggles and cuddles*" while ignoring every one else in a thread which leads to others feeling the need to connect with some one and s on and so forth. I don't think our members would really do this, and if they did, then they would just be asked to privately "tone it down" or make sure they actually stay on topic and don't exclude other members.

However, if you argue that by allowing a structured way to bond is going to create a new division in people, then you should argue the same about the ranks between regular members all the way through admin and how by having a moderator application instead of any one who wishes to be a mod is encouraging people to feel that some people are better than others because they have to go through a process. We have Mod guidelines and applications to prevent power hungry people or people who could cause drama (either on purpose or on accident). That is much my mindset it adding this tiny step to something some people would like to have around.

As I'll re iterate before, If people don't wish to have a structured means, I won't be abolishing or banning family/wifey stuff, because it IS going to happen and has already began, as other members above have already prove in stating they are already in families, and it already has the same possibility for drama that it being structured would have.

I'm just thinking along the lines that by making it so people thought a bit more before saying, ok I want to make so and so a member of my "family" instead of it degenerating into one large family on here, and people pressuring others to join said "one large family". We already have a very close knit group that people are comfortable with, but as you can see the larger we get the more elements will be introduced, aka getting married/adopting. So to say "I want it to stay the same as it is now," doesn't really work since it isn't likely to stay like it is, it is already changing.


Now let me also state that I have become aware that the mass majority of the people on here are more "wtf is this" than a conclusive yay or nay on the issue (which is all I was looking for). I can understand that some think this won't add or enrich the forums in any ways, and it's really not meant to do much more than already guide the people who ARE interested in it. If you don't believe in it, don't like that there are families, or think that it's silly, then just don't get involved or bother yourself with it.

I hope I am explaining my self clearly here >.>

I believe you are explaining yourself clearly. I would like to reiterate that I support this idea, because I believe you do have the experience and would not lead us the wrong way. Honestly, I think I will end up participating. It sounds like a fun idea and, since this the introduction of this topic, I have been trying to figure out who I have this sort of relationship with on the forums. I'm sure Elly and Sailor Jupiter will be a wonderful example of all the positives that can result from this sort of experience.

Neo Queen Serenity wrote:

I'll be honest, this is the second resistance, (from a group as a whole, not any one person) to an issue I've brought up on new things I'd like to incorporate into this forum, that's biggest "con" has been, "well I've never done it, so I'm afraid it will cause drama for X reason".

I think it is valuable to make an cohesive and thorough argument to someone who has no experience with this system. Bear in mind, there will most certainly be a slew of new members, and a portion of them will be unfamiliar with what this all entails. If they don't ask the questions, who will? This is not to be so vain as to suggest that I am somehow the brave advocate for the "silent majority." I prefer not to rubber stamp policies when I see what I believe to be flaws for which there has yet to be an explanation. I therefore thank you for taking the time to address these concerns.

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If you are hesitant to go along with something that causes fear of drama because you don't know what it is, then please understand that I am hesitant to just let the masses say, "we don't know what this is, so lets not do it" and move it.

I understand your position quite well, having been in it several times. I don't think the matter is fear of the unknown, per se, but fear of the implications. No, I have not been a part of this system before; yes, my lack of familiarity is most certainly a part of my concern. But I believe I can make an assessment a priori and be fairly accurate. I don't believe, as I have said, that this system would destroy the forum or wreck the community; the issues I have are already highlighted throughout my responses.

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I don't want the people here as a whole to never let anything change because never saying, "ok we can try it, let's give it a try, and if we don't like it, we can always change the rules," leads to things falling flat, or people never knowing if something that could be awesome.

I know you are not directing this at me in the sense that I am the cause of your distress---at least, I hope I am not!---but I don't know if anyone has been so obstinate as to argue leaving everything in place without even considering change.

My concern is sound reasoning when arriving at a conclusion. Being respectful yet frank, I am not terribly thrilled by some of the justifications for implementation. I'll elaborate on that point in a moment.

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I agree that you could interrupt this addition, or "controlled" guidelines as a way for people to see this inclusion as new "social divisions". It's not intended, nor will I think it will, to make people feel "forced" to have an adoptee, or have to go through with this to feel cool. The only way this would come about is we allowed excessive flaunting, or exccessive posts of "I love you sisssyyyyy!!!!11!1 *snuggles and cuddles*" while ignoring every one else in a thread which leads to others feeling the need to connect with some one and s on and so forth. I don't think our members would really do this, and if they did, then they would just be asked to privately "tone it down" or make sure they actually stay on topic and don't exclude other members.

Fair enough. As I have reiterated, I trust the judgment and ability of the staff here immensely.

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However, if you argue that by allowing a structured way to bond is going to create a new division in people, then you should argue the same about the ranks between regular members all the way through admin and how by having a moderator application instead of any one who wishes to be a mod is encouraging people to feel that some people are better than others because they have to go through a process.

That is why I distinguished vertical divisions and horizontal divisions. Most if not all effective forums possess a hierarchy in terms of function: administrators, moderators, and certain staff members are understood to have an elevated position above the standard member. This is a necessity for order and maintaining cohesion within a community. On a horizontal level, you should have little by way of structural difference between members. For example, it would be as if members were to select their favorite Sailor Senshi and then interact with one another according to those groupings. Members who are a part of smaller groups (or no group at all) may feel socially marginalized while members who partake in the large groups may exert social influence, whether overt or subtle. This is, of course, an example rather than my belief in the inevitable conclusion of "marriages" and "adoptions." But where social prestige is fostered, drama often follows.

Obviously the vertical and horizontal divisions are not mutually exclusive, i.e. administrators and moderators will often interact with one another publicly which is different from their standard mode of communication. There is very little which can be done on that front other than to trust the people in charge. That comprises a great deal of the effectiveness of leadership: the trust placed in that hierarchy.

As an aside: Although I am not so much worried about this issue on this forum, the prospect of administrators and moderators "marrying" or "adopting" members might smack of nepotism. That is at least how it may be interpreted. But I am confident enough in the staff here to believe they will remain evenhanded and judicious.

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As I'll re iterate before, If people don't wish to have a structured means, I won't be abolishing or banning family/wifey stuff, because it IS going to happen and has already began, as other members above have already prove in stating they are already in families, and it already has the same possibility for drama that it being structured would have.

I'm not terribly convinced by this argument, since it suggests inevitability through popularity. In fact, it is probably my least favorite part of the argument in favor of having this system in place.

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I'm just thinking along the lines that by making it so people thought a bit more before saying, ok I want to make so and so a member of my "family" instead of it degenerating into one large family on here, and people pressuring others to join said "one large family".

Fair enough. I respect most of this reasoning (particularly with establishing a normative approach), and I believe it is sound within the context of this issue.

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We already have a very close knit group that people are comfortable with, but as you can see the larger we get the more elements will be introduced, aka getting married/adopting. So to say "I want it to stay the same as it is now," doesn't really work since it isn't likely to stay like it is, it is already changing.

My argument for effectively maintaining the current system is based on the matter of whether it is worthwhile and efficacious to create a more elaborate social system. As I said before, "inevitability" and popularity are not the prime measuring sticks in my view, for they utilize an inductive method to establish a forum wide norm. And while our experiences are valuable and have shown to be valuable in this discussion, they're also colored by our own perception.

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Now let me also state that I have become aware that the mass majority of the people on here are more "wtf is this" than a conclusive yay or nay on the issue (which is all I was looking for). I can understand that some think this won't add or enrich the forums in any ways, and it's really not meant to do much more than already guide the people who ARE interested in it. If you don't believe in it, don't like that there are families, or think that it's silly, then just don't get involved or bother yourself with it.

I understand the reasoning, although this is a matter which affects the entirety of the forum, so remaining completely secluded and isolated from the concept is a near impossibility. To a degree, some concern may rest with how to prevent this from being thrust onto members who have little interest in the system, though they may feel implicitly pressured to participate or otherwise be isolated from the process and, as a result, other members.

I hope there is no offense taken over the course of this debate; we have been rather civil, I would say, so hopefully we will remain on the best of terms possible.

I understand your take on this, NQS. To be honest, I am surprised by the majority of those being adverse to this idea. I understand why you want to keep this as an organized, structured format, as those who may be eager and not exactly serious may pose as inconvenient to those either uninterested or feeling solely attached to another individual. I hate the idea of cliques being started or feelings being hurt but I do understand how bonds will unavoidably be created between certain individuals and not with others.

So, I think that if you want to create a more official manner of people being bonded to one another, that I trust you. I want you to know that I am backing you up on this decision. Although I feel that those of the Pyramidal Crystal level should be allowed to "marry" or "adopt," but that is my only conflict.


You have my support, Lady. If you need me to be a type of marriage co-ordination or adoption supervisor, witness, what have you -- I'm there.

Sailor Jupiter, you do everything. The multi-talented wonder. ^.^

Oh I know she is and I won't ever share her with any one because she is the best admin I've ever seen >.>

/end off topicness

*will reply later*

well gosh, you guys...I'm gone all day at work and I come home and don't even have a chance to get a word in between Spoons and the Lady. ^^;;

All kidding aside. I will be frank. This idea to me is uh...well I just don't care? Like, i think its cool people get so close on the internet they want to call each other "wifey" or whatever. I'm not particularly...fond of that term really. I can kind of jump on "brothers" and "sisters". Not so much "wife" and "husband". That's just too... weird for me? Maybe because I'm engaged. Or I'm a hermit. Or both. I'm leaning towards being a real life and internet hermit. Hah. I've never even thought of my best friends in real life as sisters or brothers. They were just my best friends?

Though, I feel a small simple system should be in place, just to avoid drama as stated above. Because it seems like a fun and cute idea for those who have made close friendships.

Lets just say I am in the "I don't care, do whatever you want. Just don't cause drama. I'm going over to my corner because I'm not remotely interested" club? I just don't want it shoved down my face, which is why I think a system to prevent that should be put in place.

If its shoved down my face, well I'll just get annoyed, as others have stated before. And I don't want to spoil the fun for others, so chances are I'll just stay quiet about, which in itself is probably not a good thing, but thats just the way I am.

I think everyone needs to remember as valued as our friendships are, at the end of the day, its just the internet and we all go on with our lives as normal outside of it. This place is just my escape from normal life. Am I going too off topic here? I think I'll just stop.



(And on a side note, Kyra...I think I like your way of thinking. I kind of like thinking of it as a school setting in japan where you have your sempais and kohais and whatnot. XD But that must be the small weeaboo in me. >.>)

Aw, shucks, you two.


/end off-topicness and awaits reply

Small Lady's post is pretty much everything I was thinking (except I'm now kind of on the fence about having an actual system- on one hand, if it does relegate the whole family business to signatures that's great; I'm just still skeptical about how necessary it actually is). Including the thing about Kyra's post. I think we kind of already have a senpai-kohai thing with the crystal ranks and whatnot though?

Also, maybe we should have a poll here? o 3o

Wow, this thread is BIG. Okay, now that I'm caught up here's my two cents:

I think, if it exists at all, it should just be lighthearted fun. A lot of rules and regulations regarding it kind of sucks the joy out of the spontaneity and silliness of it all.

But I do worry about it leading to nepotism and/or appearances thereof, because we're a community first and I wouldn't want anyone to feel alienated. In most situations I like to do what I perceive as making everyone else feel most comfortable; and if the majority are uncomfortable with this idea, I've got no problem shedding away the "title" for the sake of maintaining comfort and happiness.

In me and Jupiter's case we just happened to be lucky enough to get to meet in person and become close friends. I think it's wonderful that this forum enabled that to happen. I don't want to flaunt that relationship or make anybody else feel bad because of it, so I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole topic. I acquiesce to the wisdom of the masses.

Let me say this: if (and I suppose when) the system is put in place, then I support at least some basic ground rules, but nothing too terribly official. As Elly said, a highly elaborate set of regulations may undermine the spirit of what people are attempting to achieve. At most there should be oversight from admins or moderators, but that is something of a given.

Moving a bit off-topic (we are doing that quite a bit!), I'm a bit confused as to why there are multiple references to "the masses" of this forum being ambivalent or resistant to this idea. Maybe 8 to 10 members have participated in the discussion, with four of them making multiple posts? I've been the most vocal dissenting opinion, but I hardly think I represent a pervasive viewpoint. Otherwise, I have seen partial ambivalence toward certain aspects of the system while otherwise favoring or allowing for it to be in place.

I don't mean to be picky. I'm just uncertain as to from where that idea came.

Confused Aqua is confused...:@: ____ :@:

This is the most discussion, or verbal feedback I have gotten on any topic I've ever posted concerning GC additions, as well as the amount views this has received yet lack of responses indicating that people disagree with what most posters have said, While most posters comments leans more towards, being hesitant at this idea, or let's not do it at all.

I know 12 (some one deleted their response) isn't a terribly large number, since it's barely a fraction of the total number of members. However, our actual number of active people isn't very high either, maybe, in a good month about 30 registered people who visit GC. Still not a technical majority, but since I've only had one person just go "ok" on this topic that has posted, and the rest have not been particularly for it, it's easier to say "the masses" for the rest of the mass majority of people who have replied.

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I don't mean to be picky. I'm just uncertain as to from where that idea came

When I say masses I just mean the majority of the people posting in this thread. Aside from me, Jupiter, and Lady, it seems like most others are ambivalent / concerned about the concept. Just to clarify.

Hey, I was ambivalent in the beginning, but I am now in full support! I trust you guys and your decisions. I wants to be included in the support category, too. -.- AngelCastiel likes it, too. I wouldn't be surprised if other members haven't replied. This thread has huge, long posts and it looks super daunting.

I know my comment also wasn't a long one... But I believe I was in the support category too LOL