Is anyone a fan of them as a couple? I know its incest and all but I find them so cute together! They also had a lot of evidence which I will discuss later on, I just want to know if there are any other fans of this couple.

I am such a nutter, I was so sure that I had replied to this thread!

I must admit, I am a very strong advocate of these two (yes, I am aware of the incest). But I really do find them to be beautiful and I think that it is so sad the way things worked out between them. I would love to hear what you have to say on them. Who do you consider to be the dominant or who would initiate the relationship?

I have always liked Diamond as a character because there is something slightly frightening and disturbing about him. He is this tall, silver haired elegant man who has a smooth controlled voice and yet he is willing to do whatever it takes to get his obsession. So in a way, I think it would be marvelous to see him take advantage of Saffir's blind love and adoration for him. Yet at the same time, Diamond is so infatuated with Usagi. It is for this reason that I can see Saffir forcing his brother's attention or at least being the aggressor in the two.

Oh gosh, I need to hush now. Your turn!

Sailor Jupiter wrote:

I am such a nutter, I was so sure that I had replied to this thread!

I must admit, I am a very strong advocate of these two (yes, I am aware of the incest). But I really do find them to be beautiful and I think that it is so sad the way things worked out between them. I would love to hear what you have to say on them. Who do you consider to be the dominant or who would initiate the relationship?

I have always liked Diamond as a character because there is something slightly frightening and disturbing about him. He is this tall, silver haired elegant man who has a smooth controlled voice and yet he is willing to do whatever it takes to get his obsession. So in a way, I think it would be marvelous to see him take advantage of Saffir's blind, I've and adoration for him. Yet at the same time, Diamond is so infatuated with Usagi. It is for this reason that I can see Saffir forcing his brother's attention or at least being the aggressor in the two.

Oh gosh, I need to hush now. Your turn!

You know it's funny, I didn't use to ship this pairing when I first watched the English dub. What made me ship it intensely was after seeing the original Japanese version and noticing all the little hints between them that the dub took out. Well that... and plus reading some fanfiction of them that really made them seem so right for each other. I can link you to the fics if you want, I gurantee you that they're definitely A grade reading material for Demando/Saffir fans

As for my opinion as to who would be the Dom... I think Demando would definitely be the Dom of the relationship but I like to think that Saffir would initiate it, I like to think that even though Demando is obsessed with Serenity and willing to do whatever it takes to get her, he's pretty clueless about romantic relationships in general and is kind of dense. I don't know if he'd actually manipulate Saffir's feelings for him... I think he does genuinely care for Saffir but sometimes he just gets misguided. I like to think though that Saffir was his true love and not Serenity. I don't know... I just think they have great chemistry together and fit each other so well, plus Saffir obviously loves him a lot and he could change Demando for the better.

Well I also ship them because somewhere along the way they started to remind me of one of my ultimate favorite ships, Inuyasha/Kagome. >.> I don't know why though they just do.

Why do you ship them?

I'm not actually a fan X3 because I love Petz and Esmeraude far far more than Demand and Saphir I would much rather say Petz happy with Saphir and Esmeraude happy with demand then the two together.

UndergroundSources wrote:

I'm not actually a fan X3 because I love Petz and Esmeraude far far more than Demand and Saphir I would much rather say Petz happy with Saphir and Esmeraude happy with demand then the two together.

That's cool, but personally I don't think Esmeraude truly loved Demando, I think she just liked him because of the power she would get from being Queen.

I'm in agreement with EurAsianGirl: I never sensed that Esmeraude loved Dimande, much like Dimande never really loved Serenity; a good deal of their infatuation had to do with a narcissistic desire for power and/or control. That's primarily why I feel so uneasy when I see people pairing Dimande with Serenity/Sailor Moon.

Thereisnospoon303 wrote:

I'm in agreement with EurAsianGirl: I never sensed that Esmeraude loved Dimande, much like Dimande never really loved Serenity; a good deal of their infatuation had to do with a narcissistic desire for power and/or control. That's primarily why I feel so uneasy when I see people pairing Dimande with Serenity/Sailor Moon.

Thanks for agreeing with me^^ What do you think of the pairing of the topic by the way?

EurAsianGirl wrote:

Thereisnospoon303 wrote:

I'm in agreement with EurAsianGirl: I never sensed that Esmeraude loved Dimande, much like Dimande never really loved Serenity; a good deal of their infatuation had to do with a narcissistic desire for power and/or control. That's primarily why I feel so uneasy when I see people pairing Dimande with Serenity/Sailor Moon.

Thanks for agreeing with me^^ What do you think of the pairing of the topic by the way?

Honestly speaking, Dimande/Saphir is not a favored pairing of mine. The incest angle almost instantly brings it to a screeching halt for me, as does Dimande's obsession with Serenity. I'm open to a close fraternal relationship, but Dimande appeared to make little time for anyone other than himself. That's really the tragedy of his character.

Thereisnospoon303 wrote:

EurAsianGirl wrote:

Thereisnospoon303 wrote:

I'm in agreement with EurAsianGirl: I never sensed that Esmeraude loved Dimande, much like Dimande never really loved Serenity; a good deal of their infatuation had to do with a narcissistic desire for power and/or control. That's primarily why I feel so uneasy when I see people pairing Dimande with Serenity/Sailor Moon.

Thanks for agreeing with me^^ What do you think of the pairing of the topic by the way?

Honestly speaking, Dimande/Saphir is not a favored pairing of mine. The incest angle almost instantly brings it to a screeching halt for me, as does Dimande's obsession with Serenity. I'm open to a close fraternal relationship, but Dimande appeared to make little time for anyone other than himself. That's really the tragedy of his character.

Well I know his obsession with Serenity is definitely a roadblock to a relationship with Saffir, but honestly I like the pairing because I feel that Saffir was the only one who truly cared about him. Also, though Demando only seems to care about himself I definitely felt that Saffir had deeper feelings for him then just "brotherly love."

I never had the impression Saphir possessed romantic inclinations toward Dimande. My interpretation is that Dimande is his older brother, the only family member he has left, and that makes their bond especially intimate. Even if Saphir was romantically attracted toward Dimande, a loving relationship is a two-way street: Dimande is highly unlikely to reciprocate those feelings. There doesn't exist really any characterological evidence---different from hard evidence---to support Dimande caring much for anyone as an equal romantic partner.

Now, the strange thing is, so to speak, that I do not make this point on the basis of Dimande being heterosexual. To put it this way, Serenity happens to be a woman: it increases the likelihood that Dimande will be particularly interested in her, but Dimande is driven by a lust for power and control. That often has little to do with the sexuality of the persons involved; indeed, my understanding is that rape has more to do with control than with sexual attraction. In effect, Dimande wants to rape Serenity and dominate her; it's not a consensual relationship.

I just find it hard to imagine someone that vain and twisted by self-absorption giving themselves over for a consensual romantic relationship, one which would not guarantee their being dominant.

Thereisnospoon303 wrote:

I never had the impression Saphir possessed romantic inclinations toward Dimande. My interpretation is that Dimande is his older brother, the only family member he has left, and that makes their bond especially intimate. Even if Saphir was romantically attracted toward Dimande, a loving relationship is a two-way street: Dimande is highly unlikely to reciprocate those feelings. There doesn't exist really any characterological evidence---different from hard evidence---to support Dimande caring much for anyone as an equal romantic partner.

Now, the strange thing is, so to speak, that I do not make this point on the basis of Dimande being heterosexual. To put it this way, Serenity happens to be a woman: it increases the likelihood that Dimande will be particularly interested in her, but Dimande is driven by a lust for power and control. That often has little to do with the sexuality of the persons involved; indeed, my understanding is that rape has more to do with control than with sexual attraction. In effect, Dimande wants to rape Serenity and dominate her; it's not a consensual relationship.

I just find it hard to imagine someone that vain and twisted by self-absorption giving themselves over for a consensual romantic relationship, one which would not guarantee their being dominant.

Hmm I thought the Japanese version of R gave a lot of evidence to Saffir having feelings for Demando, especially with how the dub butchered a lot of scenes refferring to those feelings. You gotta admit though Demando/Saffir is a much better pairing then say Demando/Esmeraude or Demando/Serenity (That pairing I absolutely hate) I just feel Saffir could change Demando for the better and teach him how to love.

I must admit that I have not watched R in some time, although I am fairly confident in my recollections, sketchy as they may be. But once again the focus is on Saphir, not Dimande, and that remains one of my two primary issues: the hypothetical relationship is lopsided.

Relative to Dimande/Esmeraude and Dimande/Serenity, is the Dimande/Saphir pairing superior? Perhaps, although those are some slim pickings. Each relationship is arguably very dysfunctional, unless the characters are almost entirely revamped.

Thereisnospoon303 wrote:

I must admit that I have not watched R in some time, although I am fairly confident in my recollections, sketchy as they may be. But once again the focus is on Saphir, not Dimande, and that remains one of my two primary issues: the hypothetical relationship is lopsided.

Relative to Dimande/Esmeraude and Dimande/Serenity, is the Dimande/Saphir pairing superior? Perhaps, although those are some slim pickings. Each relationship is arguably very dysfunctional, unless the characters are almost entirely revamped.

I don't see how the Dimando/Saphir relationship is dysfunctional without the incest. Saphir can help change Demando into a better person and he's the only one who truly loves him. So yeah the only dysfunctional part of that relationship is the incest.

I absolutely LOATHE Demando/Serenity though! That pairing is disgusting and I can't believe there are fans of the pairing. I mean no offense but its basically reinforcing the myth that rape=love and I just find that incredibly offensive.

So, I have become slightly confused with both of these active Diamond threads and posted this in the wrong one. So here it is again.

As Spoons has said in the Diamond Dedication thread, the whole Black Moon clan had a very vain aspect of themselves and what they felt they deserved. The only time I really recall Diamond showing his soft and sincere side was when he interacted with Saffir, as well as when he witnessed his brother's death. I think that when it came to Serenity, he was infatuated with her looks and her defiant personality. As Prince, Diamond had a very high opinion of himself and I think it enticed him that Serenity was not interested in him.

But back to Diamond and his brother, yes, I love the possibility for multiple dynamics between them. Saffir in the anime plays more of the moral role while Diamon is just consumed with his own obsessions. However in the manga, Saffir is not as passive and so I like that notion of this cunning Saffir going after his oblivious Nii-san.

EurAsianGirl wrote:

Really? I didn't think Saffir was passive in the anime at all! lol, he was actually quite feisty and was the only one willing to stand up to Demando despite always getting beaten up for it. Also its weird, but I only saw the hints to the Demando/Saffir pairing in the anime and musicals, I didn't see it at all in the manga.

Can you perhaps tell me what hints you saw between them in the manga?

Compared to the manga, I think Saffir's character was passed off more as the honorable one. He went against Wiseman because of what he was doing to Diamond and Saffir felt that Wiseman was poisoning Diamond's mind. Saffir chooses the right path in going along with his plans to out Wiseman - such as trying to warn his brother and then being taken in by Petz and being protected by the Senshi before his death. In the manga, Saffir tries to kill Sailor Moon. It is because of this act, which I feel reflects a more forceful and cunning side, do I think of Saffir as more of the aggressor in the relationship with his brother, or at least possessing the capabilities.

That all aside, I actually never shipped them in the anime or the manga! lol. I never saw anything in the manga and although there were bits in the anime, they were very subtle. It was not until I saw fanart of them that I loved the idea of them. Also, I am mainly a yaoi fan so I instantly gravitate towards any chance of it in anything that I watch/read.

I don't know exactly how I got involved in this discussion, seeing as I don't even have a dog in this fight!

I have little issue with fan pairings, so long as they respect the characters involved. To put it this way, I cannot imagine Dimande and Saphir romantically involved without balking over the issues I have already raised. In order to cross the canonical and fandom gap, you have to take a lot of liberties; a good deal of the substance is implicit, and thus interpretation can get muddled by what the fandom wants to project onto the potential couple. Of course, our interpretations are almost always colored by our personal perspectives, so it's a crap shoot either way.

We'll probably go around in circles debating the substantive qualities of Dimande/Saphir, so I'm not looking to continue to stir the pot. The bottom line is I'm not compelled too terribly much by the pairing, in my own opinion, but I'm not a total curmudgeon when it comes to fan pairings. Just thought I'd make that clear.

On the other hand, as I have said elsewhere, I am totally repulsed by Dimande/Serenity. That does not seem to be too hotly debated, however.

Sailor Jupiter wrote:

So, I have become slightly confused with both of these active Diamond threads and posted this in the wrong one. So here it is again.

As Spoons has said in the Diamond Dedication thread, the whole Black Moon clan had a very vain aspect of themselves and what they felt they deserved. The only time I really recall Diamond showing his soft and sincere side was when he interacted with Saffir, as well as when he witnessed his brother's death. I think that when it came to Serenity, he was infatuated with her looks and her defiant personality. As Prince, Diamond had a very high opinion of himself and I think it enticed him that Serenity was not interested in him.

But back to Diamond and his brother, yes, I love the possibility for multiple dynamics between them. Saffir in the anime plays more of the moral role while Diamon is just consumed with his own obsessions. However in the manga, Saffir is not as passive and so I like that notion of this cunning Saffir going after his oblivious Nii-san.

EurAsianGirl wrote:

Really? I didn't think Saffir was passive in the anime at all! lol, he was actually quite feisty and was the only one willing to stand up to Demando despite always getting beaten up for it. Also its weird, but I only saw the hints to the Demando/Saffir pairing in the anime and musicals, I didn't see it at all in the manga.

Can you perhaps tell me what hints you saw between them in the manga?

Compared to the manga, I think Saffir's character was passed off more as the honorable one. He went against Wiseman because of what he was doing to Diamond and Saffir felt that Wiseman was poisoning Diamond's mind. Saffir chooses the right path in going along with his plans to out Wiseman - such as trying to warn his brother and then being taken in by Petz and being protected by the Senshi before his death. In the manga, Saffir tries to kill Sailor Moon. It is because of this act, which I feel reflects a more forceful and cunning side, do I think of Saffir as more of the aggressor in the relationship with his brother, or at least possessing the capabilities.

That all aside, I actually never shipped them in the anime or the manga! lol. I never saw anything in the manga and although there were bits in the anime, they were very subtle. It was not until I saw fanart of them that I loved the idea of them. Also, I am mainly a yaoi fan so I instantly gravitate towards any chance of it in anything that I watch/read.

Hey so question Sailor Jupiter. Did you begin to see the hints for Demando/Saffir after you became a fan of the pairing? Could you list the hints that you saw in the anime? You said they were very subtle but I'd just like your take on it.

Hope bumps are allowed.

Hee. Bumps are allowed. Especially when you are trying to get my attention, I encourage them! School and work and my Admin duties has my brain being pulled from all sides.

To be honest, I cannot remember any specific moments in the anime or manga. I'd have to go back and look, but I cannot recall anything off the top of my head. What it really boils down to is that yaoi is my main interest in anything. So whenever I watch a show, I automatically make yaoi otps. Lol. It is rather ridiculous but that is just how I see things. Although Diamond/Serenity is the automatic relationship discussion, I gravitate towards the possibility of a male/male relationship and I find the story between Saffir and Diamond to be tragically beautiful. Saffir loves and adores his older brother, so in my mind I pull that into a romantic love rather than a simple brotherly love. I never had much thought for Diamond because I never cared for him that much. He was a bit flat to me in the anime and unimportant in the manga.

So yah, it's the fan art that I basis all of my feelings on.

Sailor Jupiter wrote:

Hee. Bumps are allowed. Especially when you are trying to get my attention, I encourage them! School and work and my Admin duties has my brain being pulled from all sides.

To be honest, I cannot remember any specific moments in the anime or manga. I'd have to go back and look, but I cannot recall anything off the top of my head. What it really boils down to is that yaoi is my main interest in anything. So whenever I watch a show, I automatically make yaoi otps. Lol. It is rather ridiculous but that is just how I see things. Although Diamond/Serenity is the automatic relationship discussion, I gravitate towards the possibility of a male/male relationship and I find the story between Saffir and Diamond to be tragically beautiful. Saffir loves and adores his older brother, so in my mind I pull that into a romantic love rather than a simple brotherly love. I never had much thought for Diamond because I never cared for him that much. He was a bit flat to me in the anime and unimportant in the manga.

So yah, it's the fan art that I basis all of my feelings on.

You need to rewatch Sailor Moon R! There's so much evidence for the pairing that its not even funny. It's not just based on Yaoi goodness lol. Though I would love to have more of your headcanons for Saffir on this topic

Finally posting my Saffir headcanons here! They do pertain to the two boys as a couple, so I think they makes sense to fit in this topic.

Some headcanons on Saffir, for EurAsianGirl.


Sexual Orientation? And, regardless of own orientation, thoughts on sexual orientation in general?

Saffir has never thought much on the matter of sexual orientation because his only focus has always been on his brother, Diamond. He has never thought much on girls - they annoy him with their high pitched voices and pungent scents and too-soft bodies. But it doesn’t matter to him that Diamond is a male, Diamond is his brother and his only constant thought. So this perhaps this makes Saffir gay, for the lack of anything else other than Diamond happening to be a male as Saffir is.

31. Most prized possession?

When Saffir was seven years old his brother gave him a small blue shell. It was no bigger than size of Diamond’s thumb knuckle and Saffir could never comprehend where Diamond could have found such a delicate treasure. Saffir has kept it tucked in the inside of his right breast pocket ever since.

48. How do they express love?

Saffir does not know how to express love, does not understand the meaning of this word. He only knows that he would do anything for Diamond, anything to make him happy, and so Saffir has stayed devoted to his brother without questioning. If Saffir had to define the word “love,” he would reply with “devotion.”

34. Thoughts on privacy? (Are they a private person, or are they prone to ‘TMI’?)

Privacy is a sacred to Saffir. He is an incredibly private person and when he enters his private quarters he expects to be left alone. Once Esmerelda wandered in and Saffir threw a black quartz statue at her face in a rage, slicing her cheek and leaving her with a scar that didn’t fade for a week. She never entered his room again.

28. Who do they see as their best friend? Their worst enemy?

His brother Diamond is easily Saffir’s best friend. Just about everyone else is considered an enemy.

21. Turn-ons? Turn-offs?

Saffir finds the color of white to be an undeniable turn-on. He loves the purity of it, so clean, resembling something untouched and delicate. He loves how easily it can be dirtied, stained, marred to imperfection. He loves how often Diamond usually wanders the hall in an oblivious matter to what is occurring around him. He likes to come upon his brother from behind, slam him against the cool surface of the stone palace walls and see shock that appears in Diamond’s slender-shaped eyes. There is nothing more arousing than to feel his brother struggle against him, fight back and pin him in return. He likes the way his brother’s hair falls in front of his eyes, damp with sweat and clinging to his brows.

As for what turns off Saffir — anything resembling the shade of green. He hates lips painted in rouge, the smell of perfume, the way his nose itches when anywhere near the proximity of feathers. High-pitched laughter disgusts him. So does the color yellow. Diamond wore that color once and Saffir felt repulsed and refused to let Diamond touch him.

23. How organized are they? How does this organization/disorganization manifest in their everyday life?

Saffir is rather the minimalist. This allows for very precise organization and spotless clothing that are always pressed and precise.



I promise I will write more, lovie! I just need a moment where I am not so exhausted. -_-

Sailor Jupiter wrote:

Finally posting my Saffir headcanons here! They do pertain to the two boys as a couple, so I think they makes sense to fit in this topic.

Some headcanons on Saffir, for EurAsianGirl.


Sexual Orientation? And, regardless of own orientation, thoughts on sexual orientation in general?

Saffir has never thought much on the matter of sexual orientation because his only focus has always been on his brother, Diamond. He has never thought much on girls - they annoy him with their high pitched voices and pungent scents and too-soft bodies. But it doesn’t matter to him that Diamond is a male, Diamond is his brother and his only constant thought. So this perhaps this makes Saffir gay, for the lack of anything else other than Diamond happening to be a male as Saffir is.

31. Most prized possession?

When Saffir was seven years old his brother gave him a small blue shell. It was no bigger than size of Diamond’s thumb knuckle and Saffir could never comprehend where Diamond could have found such a delicate treasure. Saffir has kept it tucked in the inside of his right breast pocket ever since.

48. How do they express love?

Saffir does not know how to express love, does not understand the meaning of this word. He only knows that he would do anything for Diamond, anything to make him happy, and so Saffir has stayed devoted to his brother without questioning. If Saffir had to define the word “love,” he would reply with “devotion.”

34. Thoughts on privacy? (Are they a private person, or are they prone to ‘TMI’?)

Privacy is a sacred to Saffir. He is an incredibly private person and when he enters his private quarters he expects to be left alone. Once Esmerelda wandered in and Saffir threw a black quartz statue at her face in a rage, slicing her cheek and leaving her with a scar that didn’t fade for a week. She never entered his room again.

28. Who do they see as their best friend? Their worst enemy?

His brother Diamond is easily Saffir’s best friend. Just about everyone else is considered an enemy.

21. Turn-ons? Turn-offs?

Saffir finds the color of white to be an undeniable turn-on. He loves the purity of it, so clean, resembling something untouched and delicate. He loves how easily it can be dirtied, stained, marred to imperfection. He loves how often Diamond usually wanders the hall in an oblivious matter to what is occurring around him. He likes to come upon his brother from behind, slam him against the cool surface of the stone palace walls and see shock that appears in Diamond’s slender-shaped eyes. There is nothing more arousing than to feel his brother struggle against him, fight back and pin him in return. He likes the way his brother’s hair falls in front of his eyes, damp with sweat and clinging to his brows.

As for what turns off Saffir — anything resembling the shade of green. He hates lips painted in rouge, the smell of perfume, the way his nose itches when anywhere near the proximity of feathers. High-pitched laughter disgusts him. So does the color yellow. Diamond wore that color once and Saffir felt repulsed and refused to let Diamond touch him.

23. How organized are they? How does this organization/disorganization manifest in their everyday life?

Saffir is rather the minimalist. This allows for very precise organization and spotless clothing that are always pressed and precise.



I promise I will write more, lovie! I just need a moment where I am not so exhausted. -_-

Thanks so much! I can't wait to see the rest of them.