Alright. I don't want to address Seiya at all in this debate. This debate is more of a question for the ladies with male friends, whether they are just friends, boyfriends, fiances, or husbands.

What do the males in your life think of the anime version of Darien?

My husband absolutely cannot stand Darien at all. He thinks Darien is annoying, mean, and useless. He says the only time Darien was a "cool" character was when he had his own agenda, i.e. capturing the rainbow crystals. However, after that arc, Darien became the accessory of Sailor Moon, much like Ken is to Barbie. My husband refuses to let my daughter watch Sailor Moon R because he is afraid our daughter will pick up on Serena's behavior and beg the first man she is with who treats her badly to stay in her life. He feels that Darien is a horrible role model for boys as well, teaching boys that you do not need to communicate with your partner, and that your word is final because you, the male, think it's what's best for both people.

My husband has never read the manga, and refuses to because he feels like the main male character is a sissy either way. He knows there are huge differences between the anime and the manga. However, he just doesn't care. His first impression of Sailor Moon is sitting through all the dvds including the movies. He made the decision to watch them when my daughter picked up interest.

So, what do your men think?

Well I like manga-mamaoru but I agree with your thoughts on anime Mamoru. No male in my life has an opinion of the Sailor Moon anime. My brother got me into Sailor Moon but he died and I never got to discuss anything Sailor Moon related with him

Those are not my thoughts! Those are my husband's words!

I'm so sorry about your brother.

I agree with his thought* ^^

What are your thoughts?

Manga Mamoru has a huge inferiority complex on Usagi and her soldiers. Sure he isn't really a good "role model" for boys, but, hey, isn't Sailor Moon a girls serie?
Sailor Moon is about loving and forgiving. No ways it teach little girls to threat their men like dogs.

Mamoru is a bit of a trope in Asia. He is a classic type of man (considered quite masculine) to many Asian nations, especially the Japanese. Stoicism, honour, high intellect, stubbornness and pride are all regarded as masculine traits. Mamoru is a very popular character with women in Japan. In fact on meeting alot of Japanese ladies who grew up with Sailor Moon, one of the most common things I hear is how much they like Mamoru. I think your husband is having trouble with the cultural differences between Western and Eastern perceptions.

What does Manga Mamoru have to do with what my husband thinks of the anime? He was referring to Season R when Darien breaks up with Serena, and she begs him to come back to her. He felt that was inappropriate behavior for his daughter to watch.

Houyou- Perhaps that may be the case.

Nerf- My thoughts are, I only watch the original season of Sailor Moon. I much prefer the manga, mainly because the change of actresses in seasons S and Super S kills my eardrums.

I can't bring myself to really watch Sailor Moon R. I suppose on some fronts I can agree with my husband, I personally would've never given Darien the light of day after he said he didn't love me. However, I was 14 once and in love with someone just like anime Darien. The difference was, he kept rejecting me, and we never ended up together. It was extremely painful, but I don't have any tv show to blame for my stupidity.

Unlike my husband, I can see Darien trying to protect Serena, and while I do not enjoy the way the anime writers purposely distorted my favorite character, I can tolerate it. It's Serena's begging I can't stand. It's painful.

I think that the one thing I can love about Darien in Sailor Moon R is his love for Rini. The father/daughter relationship makes my heart melt. I'm a sucker for sweet daddies who treat their babies well.

Houyou no Senshi wrote:

Mamoru is a bit of a trope in Asia. He is a classic type of man (considered quite masculine) to many Asian nations, especially the Japanese. Stoicism, honour, high intellect, stubbornness and pride are all regarded as masculine traits. Mamoru is a very popular character with women in Japan. In fact on meeting alot of Japanese ladies who grew up with Sailor Moon, one of the most common things I hear is how much they like Mamoru. I think your husband is having trouble with the cultural differences between Western and Eastern perceptions.

*first of all, I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to declare any sort of racial stereotype*

I dated a guy who grew up in Japan and I couldn't agree more. I honestly thought he was a jerk, he treated me terribly. Then I watched PGSM and realized that Mamoru was a complete jerk too. Then, the more I thought about it, the more I realized EVERY male on PGSM was a jerk! That made me realize that the things that I thought made him a "jerk" were just differences in culture. For example, in PGSM Usagi ran into someone or something and the man was like, "Watch where you're going, stupid!" and like looked like he wanted to hit her. That's something a woman might say to another woman in America, or a man to another man, but not a man to a woman. Things are just different.

... If that sounded offensive let me know. I don't mean to say all men from Japan are jerks or anything.

Quote :

What does Manga Mamoru have to do with what my husband thinks of the
anime? He was referring to Season R when Darien breaks up with Serena,
and she begs him to come back to her. He felt that was inappropriate
behavior for his daughter to watch.

Again this is probably just a cultural differences, in Asia, many women are perfectly happy to lower their gender class to men and centre their lives around them. Gender imbalance is not so much of a problem, though this is changing in more recent times and opinion will always always vary between individuals, but on the whole, its not such a problem. Eastern critics of Mamoru are more likely to label him "useless" rather than "not masculine" because Marou partner is strong willed and powerful, even if she's attached to him, the fact that he is unable to support her any less than she can support him, he can be regarded by some to be a little useless. In short, he probably should keep his woman under control. But again, this is a general cultural perception.

Usagi reacts to the break-up a bit extremely, but given the circumstances, its not seen really anything to do with gender.

It's not really a trait of Japan for women to like standoffish men, that is everywhere and why so many good guys are annoyed that women like the "bad boy" image better then the "boy next door" and why the good guy is "friendzoned". It's not cultural, it's just a lot of women like guys who don't treat them well. I have absolutely no idea why, I ask my friends why they like that kind of guy and they can't even answer me :/

Personally I hate that kind of guy, and apparently it's the same for men. Guys don't like nice girls as much as they like girls who treat them like crap. I seriously don't get the appeal :/

brrrandiZZLe wrote:

... If that sounded offensive let me know. I don't mean to say all men from Japan are jerks or anything.

Of course not all Japanese men are like that, there are some extreme examples but its more of a culturally generality. It stands true for many Asian cultures, that men are regarded much more highly than women.

Be careful with translations though Brandi, often translations can make things seem more harsh than they are, since Japanese has a smaller vocabulary than English, words that mean different things under different tones and situations are translated exactly the same way in English and Mamoru's actor in PGSM isn't the greatest with facial expressions to boot.

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It's not really a trait of Japan for women to like standoffish men

Standoffish and stoic are not really the same thing, Mamoru is really just teasing Usagi and she overreacts because its in her personality and then it becomes a back-and-forth thing. Relationships can be generalised but still should be seen on a case-by-case basis. Usagi never liked Mamoru because he treated her rudely, she liked him after she say he was kind underneath.

I'm pretty sure it a is a cultural thing. However in that quote you put up, it was in response to mayo and what he said about teaching girls to treat boys like dogs. I was just bring up that's not what my husband said at all, and it for sure is not how I meant for the post to come across.

When my husband called Anime Darien useless, he was referring to his Tuxedo Mask form, his only ability is basically to throw roses for most of the show.

For the most part he doesn't care about the first season. Sailor Moon R just rubs him the wrong way.

The teasing is my favorite part of the relationship before they get together. Their chemistry and how they handle it makes me laugh.

I think you are right about cultural differences.

brrandizzle- I get what you are saying. I have many Asian friends who married young to American men because according to them, they were the sweetest man they had ever met. However, they still choose to solely focus their lives around their husbands. Typically becoming housewives and bearing children. (Which I have no issue with, seeing as I am a stay at home mother myself.)

nerf-or-nothing wrote:

Personally I hate that kind of guy, and apparently it's the same for men. Guys don't like nice girls as much as they like girls who treat them like crap. I seriously don't get the appeal :/

It's the same for men hating men who treat their women badly and women hating women for treating their men badly.

Mamoru doesn't throw roses in the manga

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It's the same for men hating men who treat their women badly and women hating women for treating their men badly.

Exactly why this doesn't have anything to do with culture or Japan only. Men act like that everywhere, and men everyone don't act like that.

However, this debate is titled Anime Darien, and has nothing to do with the manga which is why it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep bringing it up. It was supposed to be a debate about what men in our lives thought about Darien from the anime. It seemed like an interesting twist to the debate.

Yeah but we're really talking about the perceptions on what a jerk is and how okay a culture is like that. This is just a generality. Of course there are nasty and good men in all cultures...

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This is just a generality. Of course there are nasty and good men in all cultures...

that's why there isn't a need to generalize all men like that just because Japan has men like that.

A generality wouldn't be Japan only it would be about men in general regardless of their race. I know a lot of really sweet Japanese guys who aren't anything like that but granted they get friend-zoned just like any race of man seems to get the short stick when it comes to being nice. I prefer nice guys though vs. the standoffish, jerk or party goer guy, although that is just my taste. Some girls prefer the latter :/ which I still don't understand the appeal... my guess is it's about popularity or something, who knows.

When it comes to guys and the anime Darien to go back on topic, most guys probably would not like him. He's not very strong, he is constantly being saved by the girls in his life who are far more powerful then he is, he doesn't seem to dress well and the only thing they'd probably admire is the fact that he's dating a high school student and surrounded by women :/

I get this assumption from Tenchi Muyo fans, Tenchi is immensely powerful in the OVA but guys call him weak and over-powered and stupid because he's surrounded by beautiful girls and he lets them control him lol

Lol, your paragraph about anime Darien made me choke on my drink from giggling. My dad is exactly like that last sentence. He always says it must be nice to be the only guy in a group of women. He says he wouldn't mind being the weaker link as long as pretty ladies with short skirts save him all the time.

lol that's why Tenchi Muyo guy fans don't like Tenchi because every time the girls try to have their way with him he freaks out and tries to run away. Just go to youtube and look at the comments, they all basically say "Tenchi's a moron I would kill to be in his place!" lol