Would it be better then if Fisheye's storyline was given to Tiger's Eye?

Chronos Typhoon wrote:

Moonlight Lady wrote:

Neon Genesis wrote:

Takeuchi wrote her comments about the series and in one of them, she said the biggest difference between the manga and the anime was that the manga was written by women for women whereas the anime was handled by a mostly male staff.

OT a bit- but while I understand Takeuchi's annoyance with the changes made to her story, the idea that gender influences negatively one's ability for creating a story, is unsettling.

Well, men think differently than women. It's just a fact, so I can see where she is coming from with the whole women writing a story to empower women thing.

I don't know - IMO all women are different, and men too.

@Neon Genesis: Men and women think differently. And...? Men and women perceive things differently; they view the world differently. Just because Takeuchi stated that the Sailor Moon anime dealt with mainly a male staff doesn't mean she was making a negative comment or stating that since men worked on the anime that this is a negative and detracts from the story. She stated that there was a difference. Nothing more, nothing less. And as mentioned before, the series is mainly about female empowerment. Why do you think Tuxedo Mask was always the "damsel" Sailor Moon had to save? Role reversal. Why do you think Takeuchi's rule is only females can be senshi? Female empowerment. Look at the world around you that you actually live in; it's all ran by man. Yes, women have more or less equal opportunity that men have, but you notice this is still a male dominated world. Takeuchi was making a badass-female-hero ran story with a badass woman running the entire world (in the future). Female. Empowerment.

She is also allowed to be annoyed with someone changing her characters to fit how they want them to be, when she does not want them to be seen in that way. I'm pretty sure you'd be annoyed too if you wrote a story and whoever was adapting it changed your character to how they wanted your character to be.

I think it would depend on how well the adaptation was handled and if it kept the spirit of the original in-tact. Miyazaki's anime adaptation of Howl's Moving Castle was completely different from the original novel and Diana Wynee Jones still enjoyed it because she accepted that movies and books were different mediums and differences between the two were inevitable. The first anime adaptation of FMA was completely different from the manga but Hiromu Arakawa still enjoyed it and liked seeing the different directions Studio Bones took her characters in. And as I said before, the Starlights weren't men who turned into women in the anime. They were women who were disguised as men, so they were still female Sailor Soldiers.

They disguised as men to the point where they were physically, biologically, male. That was very apparent. So technically yes, they were women who turned into men who turned into women. I remember the episode where Seiya went over to Usagi's to be her "bodyguard" and Chibi Chibi got cake all over him and he had to shower. I remember the one transformation sequences for the Starlights where boobs grew and bodies became more female (or the one where they just stood and posed and the color/body changed for the transformation). It still counts; they altered her characters. In the manga, the Starlights just dressed as men but they were still physically and biologically female. Just because you don on male clothes doesn't automatically make you a guy (and yes I realize such a statement would bring up an entirely different topic, but I rather we not get into that ^^).

I'ma just leave this here...

Also, not everybody likes when their story changes. That's cool that the original creators of those stories liked them and the changes, but not everybody does. Just because they did doesn't mean Naoko should like the changes made to her story o.o

The Starlights may have biologically changed genders but the anime still makes it clear that their true gender is female. Like in the episode where they're reunited with Princess Kakyuu and Seiya explains to her that they disguised themselves as a boy band to find her. It's the same thing as the manga expect in the manga they crossdressed and in the anime they biologically switched genders but it's still the same concept. Though one must wonder if they're this super popular boy band and they're only crossdressing, wouldn't a paparazzi reporter notice something feminine about them after awhile? Takeuchi is certainly free to not like the changes Toei made but I don't see why you should hate something just because it's different. Sometimes differences can actually improve a story. Takeuchi herself took a lot of liberities with Greek and Japanese mythology. The Kakeru/Luna special in the manga is basically a magical girl remake of the Princess Kaguya fairytale.

Yes, but if you are biologically changed, you are biologically changed. You are no longer a female. Yes they went female > male > female, but there shouldn't have been any male part involved in that.

Also, no, the paparazzi wouldn't notice anything unless they wanted them to. You have females that look like males that you can never tell the difference unless they wanted you to know...

Again there is a difference between crossdressing and biologically changing....

What happened to the Starlights doesn't bother me any o_o I was just stating why Naoko would probably be upset and I can understand why she would be XD

Yes Sailor Moon had to save him rather than the typical male saves female role. Yeah he saved her plenty with distractions and whatnot, but he's been abducted and even brainwashed before (at least twice brainwashed, and once just plainly abducted). Even if it's not a significant amount of times, these things still happened to him. The show focuses on her and her senshi saving the world.

I was mentioning female empowerment as in a women ran force, not a typical man ran force. Girl power, as the Spice Girls liked to say. And of course with women, love and purity are usually tied into the deal (in terms of heroes).

Yes, the future is ruled by a king and queen, but we know the king is behind the queen in terms of power. Neo Queen Serenity does see her king as an equal, but Sailor Moon is a) the prime character, b) the brightest star in the galaxy, c) more or less regarded as an actual goddess. The king is not regarded in the same manner.

Yet they are King and Queen, not Queen and Prince Consort. So their position is equal and power shared. Queen has great power against the enemy, but in times of peace King definately contributes his share of goverment.

True - in anime the roles of saviour and saved fluctuate between them (so rather role switch that role reversal) - but did she ever rescue him in manga?

Sailor Senshi are also abducted, including Sailor Moon.

Yes, they are equal to each other. But I will stand by my opinion that the queen is still more powerful than the king. That's just how it is. It's an opinion. I also feel like this is going a bit off topic.

And I also have no idea because I haven't plowed through all the manga yet. But even if she didn't, she at least did in the anime. It's still a role reversal, it's still showing female empowerment where a female can do things just as well, if not better, than a male. So...I don't really know why you're trying to like argue against the female empowerment... And it also is kinda going off topic too because female empowerment is unrelated to homophobia.

I definately agree that she is much more powerful in terms of magical power - but not in terms of political power as the co-ruler.



Sorry for getting off-topic, but this discussion seemed so interesting.

XDD it's totally cool! These things happen. One thing leads to another. No big deal ^^ but hey, maybe you've been inspired to start a new debate of some sort. Or theory C:

no, not at all. the character are respected. and so what if it a be stereotyped. it is a real personalty for SOME gay people. not all but some. there is a a few gay fans on SMF and none of them ever thought it was negative. on a side note most of my favorite characters in SM are the gay ones;

and stereotyped is not homophobic.

Wow, what a great thread to make my first post in! I love discussing LGBT-related topics. (oh, and Hi btw )

Alright, here's my input,
It still to this day AMAZES me that they actually have plenty(!) of homosexual characters in an anime (aimed for children) from the 90s!
And to me, the Sailor Moon anime is not homophobic. The gay-male stereotypes (fisheye, zoisite and cat-stylist in stars, haha) are a bit annoying, for sure. But since Sailor Moon portay gay and lesbian characters in positive light in so many other aspects it doesn't really bother me THAT much.
Haruka and Michiru sure are the "dirtier" senshis but I've never linked that with their sexualities, I've just seen it (as many other here also has) as they are the older ones and not so naive and pure like the original five.

Usagis view on sexuality has been a big intrest of mine and I've been trying to read her reactions and dialogue when i last re-watched the anime. She, and the other 4, sure are catting around the subject, but they seem to more "giggly" about it then homophobic. The animators didn't make them freak out and yell "euw! gross!"
... Ok, when they think Makoto is a lesbian there's some freaking out. But I think that's just because they think SHE is doing it cause she can never find a boyfriend. They don't say to Michiru and Haruka "oh too bad, so you couldn't find boyfriends" x)

When the girl approaches Usagi with the love letter (which is really for Yaten), Usagi doesn't yell at her to get lost, but she says "i think falling in love with a boy is better". Ok, that one stang a bit at first, but it's all a part of Usagis naive side. She's not all that bright always but she has a pure heart and accepts all kinds of love no matter what.

Ok, so I'm a bit of a pessimist, but personally I don't think that the new anime will have nearly as much "homosexual content". They did say that it was aimed at the older fans and all, but I'm not sure i believe that. If they REALLY want to re-launch SM wouldn't they want to make "watchable" for as many people as possible? Parents today are waaay more overprotective after all. Also Z&K are not gay in the manga, it was a anime invention, they didn't have it in PGSM so why include it again..? Haruka and Michiru doesn't appear until the third season, so who knows if we'll even get to see them in the new anime at all. BUT I HOPE I AM WRONG! Imagine the reactions to a H/M kiss?

Neon Genesis wrote:

Moonlight Lady wrote:

I think that giving up on somebody who is not into you is generally portrayed as virtue - Fisheye and Fiore doesn't seem much different from Rei and Saori.

But at least Saori got a boyfriend of her own and Rei has a potential boyfriend if she ever admits to herself that she likes Yuichiro whereas it seems most of the relationships of gay men in the anime wind up in tragedy. This is also something that bugs me slightly about American movies and TV shows. Like even in gay friendly movies like Brokeback Mountain, the gay couple's relationship almost always ends up in tragedy for some reason. I don't know why people just can't do a happily ever after romance for a gay couple.

Meh, that's partly due to the fact that there aren't many guys in Sailor Moon. I admit, it did annoy me at first that only villains were ever gay men, but the story is supposed to be about girls we must find our homosexual mens elsewhere...

Funny fact: in the manga, Fish Eye was straight and tried to seduce Ami. Hawks Eye was the cross dresser.

The Japanese version and most Japanese anime aren't homophobic at all and Sailor Moon in so exception. It was an anime aimed at young adults but when it came to America they try to hard to make it a child's show :/

So many manga and anime have homosexual relationships or hints and at them in the very least.

America first started to become more excepting in the late 90s when shows like Xena: Warrior Princess and Charmed dared to bring up the issue opening the doors for future shows^-^

-Editied- I think the first was Xena but it might have been The Nanny^^