Something that crossed my mind in another discussion. Was it really fair that Usagi had to be with Chibiusa so early in her life?

While they clearly love each other, Usagi was only 14 or 15. Usagi tries her best to be a normal teenager but is already so busy with her senshi duties. Now, she is pretty much responsible for a child that she has not even conceived yet.

Also, Chibiusa kinda comes in-between her and Mamoru. While it is perfectly normal for Mamoru to dote on his daughter, Usagi needs time to develop her relationship with Mamoru and she needs time to learn about herself and have fun.

I cannot imagine my middle school self having the responsibility of taking care of my future daughter.

What do you guys think? Was it fair to expect Usagi to be with and train/raise Chibiusa?

I don't think it was fair but I agree they do love each other. Usagi slowly started losing her happy normal life ever since she became Sailor Moon and people think it's so great but I like to hope that one day, Usagi and all of them, can live another life complete separate from all these responsibilities :/

Is it fair? Honestly no. I would've hated it at 14/15 yrs old mostly because I wouldn't be that responsible.

Then again, Usagi's future self decided this in both the manga and anime to do this to herself, quite literally. So, I'm wondering, literally, why she would do that to herself? Then again there's some evidence she (NQS) had some idea what the future was going to be like because she mentions Super Sailor Moon to Chibiusa, who obviously had no idea what that meant at all.

So it's both kind of cruel of NQS to do that to her daughter and herself in a way (in order to technically get more power and basically handing off the responsibility of training and teaching her daughter off to basically someone else.).

Obviously, Usagi doesn't have many charitable thoughts about her future self when she learned this.

((Though it would be extremely funny if the entire point of chibiusa there is to keep it so that chibiusa herself isn't born too soon, thus is serving a purpose.))



Flip side in the Meta world: Chibiusa is a popular character. When something is very popular, it's going to be brought back no matter what way.

Neo Queen Serenity didn't decide it though, at first it was Chibiusa's decision alone, and then since the damamge had already been done NQS wasn't thinking of herself she was thinking of her daughter and as we know, NQS and Usagi are different.

In heart NQS isn't strong but Usagi is, and she's forgotten how to think like Usagi so she probably didn't even think about how Usagi must of felt, she only thought of what would be most beneficial to her daughter. Chibiusa was also able to age by going to the past, something she couldn't manage in the beginning by remaining in the future

Nevermind.

Quote :

It reminds me of how in the beginning of StarS after Diana's death that
Neo-Queen Serenity gave Chibi-Usa Pluto's time key and told her to go
see 'the end of the world'

I agree it was necessary, but I don't believe this segment in the manga ever happened :/

It did. I remember that. When Rini went to the end of the world with her team of scouts, she ended up disappearing when Sailor Galaxia kicked Darien into the cauldron

I don't believe that, in the end of the manga Chibiusa and her senshi were sent back to Crystal Tokyo, not the end of the world :/

edit: chibiusa dies when Mamoru died because Galaxia kicked him, and the Quartet was still there

She said after Diana died, not at the end of the manga. Of course she went home after the battle was over. ;]

Diana never died in the manga

nerf-or-nothing wrote:

Diana never died in the manga

Whoa, sorry if I said 'died' as in 'dead, gone, forever' dead! I didn't mean it to sound so final. My bad.

But Diana didn't die, though. She and Luna and Artemis were rendered without powers and magic when they were attacked by Tin Nynako. They were given to Usagi's Mom, Ikuko, who made the comments that she felt like she'll never see Usagi again.

Also they didn't go to the end of the world, but the center of the Galaxy. Both Chibiusa and the Quartet were sent back to the future after it was all over. (It's implied heavily when Chibiusa told Usagi she'd see her in the future.)

Then what else does died mean?

Quote :

But Diana didn't die, though. She and Luna and Artemis were rendered
without powers and magic when they were attacked by Tin Nynako. They
were given to Usagi's Mom, Ikuko, who made the comments that she felt
like she'll never see Usagi again.

Also they didn't go to the end
of the world, but the Galaxy. Both Chibiusa and the Quartet were sent
back to the future after it was all over. (It's implied heavily when
Chibiusa told Usagi she'd see her in the future.)

this is correct^^

My mistake. It all sounded right, but honestly I don't have the manga version of Stars anymore. I read them all to pieces as a kid and have to replace them all. =(

Ktenshi wrote:

But Diana didn't die, though. She and Luna and Artemis were rendered without powers and magic when they were attacked by Tin Nynako. They were given to Usagi's Mom, Ikuko, who made the comments that she felt like she'll never see Usagi again.

Also they didn't go to the end of the world, but the center of the Galaxy. Both Chibiusa and the Quartet were sent back to the future after it was all over. (It's implied heavily when Chibiusa told Usagi she'd see her in the future.)

I'm sorry if I used the word 'died', again. I couldn't find another verb to describe the situation.

And I am just using the current translation of the manga that I have on hand - the newer versions of the StarS hasn't been released yet, so I'm not sure how they worded NQS's sentence when she handed Chibi-Usa the key. It's a pretty lame excuse, I know, but that's what I can remember. I may be wrong. I'm wondering now if NQS also mentioned 'to the place where stars are born' or I am mixing up someone else's lines with hers???? Argh, it's giving me a headache.

I'm still curious about what other meaning died could be other then "dead and gone"?

The new manga is the same as the old manga only with updates and minor changes and packed into thicker books.

You can read the manga on mangafox, unfortunately someone changed it to the Miss Dreams scanlations which are incorrect in many many places and many ways but it's still free so :/

nerf-or-nothing wrote:

I'm still curious about what other meaning died could be other then "dead and gone"?

The new manga is the same as the old manga only with updates and minor changes and packed into thicker books.

You can read the manga on mangafox, unfortunately someone changed it to the Miss Dreams scanlations which are incorrect in many many places and many ways but it's still free so :/

It's okay! It's my fault for using the word 'dead' - I should have listened to my thoughts and wrote down 'when Diana's crystal was stolen/taken'. I just remember that instance in the Lake of Lost Memories with Luna/Artemis/Diana.

I have both the old and the new manga. I am only relating what one translation said, since yes, I know they really didn't go to the 'end of the world' (if there is such a thing, lol). I didn't mean it to come off sounding like that's what I thought they said or that's what I really believed NQS said. Rereading pg. 115 of StarS vol. 3, NQS's lines were, "Go and travel through time...to the end of the universe..."

Her crystal wasn't taken her crescent moon mark was damaged in the fight with Tin Nyanko and they weren't actually in the lake, it was just a a vision they were using to frighten Usagi and in a way it helped her remember

Chibiusa hadn't seen Diana for days, and she somehow shares the vision with Usagi who is in the lake, she can feel the turbulent times and at first her mother doesn't want her to go bui Chibiusa convinces her

The end of the universe is in reference to the Sagittarius Zero Star, the Galaxy cordon where stars are born, die and recycled. It's a location but not an end event

The reason she said to travel through time is because this was happening in the past, and that if Chibiusa went to the end of the Universe in her own time no one would be there because the battle was happening in the past

True, though I always believed that the cauldorn was outside of time and space. Besides this topic was slightly covered here:

http://www.thegalaxycauldronforums.com/t261-debate-neo-queen-serenity-s-reaction

I feel the Tsukino Family are slightly being overlooked in this
discussion. It's not like Usagi suddenly found herself in the role of a
single mother because her future daughter came to stay (hm, sounds like a
sitcom when I put it that way). They both had Kenji and Ikuko and
their relationship seems more like that of sisters than mother and
daughter at this point. Ikuko probably spends more time taking care of
Chibiusa than Usagi does. As for Chibiusa always getting between her and Mamoru, ehh... I think those scenes are more for comic effect than to be taken seriously. I can't speak for the manga since I still haven't gotten that far.

You're right on that, Tori. It's not like she is always with Chibiusa and Chibiusa in later epsiodes has her own friends and people she hangs out with. We just never see what Usagi (or Mamoru) are doing during those times.

Thats a good point that Usagi really does not become responsible for most of the childrearing.

I still feel like Chibiusa puts some extra pressure on Usagi that she normally would not face, but maybe some of that responsibility is good for her (can ya tell I am undecided on my stance here)

I don't think it's fair at all. Chibiusa's character and staying in the past was the one thing I don't like about Sailor Moon. Yes I like the idea of the future being in peril and someone going in the past trying to prevent Black Moon's invasion. I would be okay if the person being Chibiusa, but her not staying in the past afterward.

Seriously I think it's not fair to both Usagi and Chibiusa. Usagi has to take care of her future daughter and Chibiusa must be weird out seeing her parents before she was born.

This is interesting...

Is it fail? of course not, in any universe this is fair, and
like Yami-sempai said, it wasn't fair for both of them
BUT!!! you might think i'm crazy but in a weird way
this was good.

You see, even if Usagi had sailor duties, with Chibi-Usa around
she had a bit of taste of parenting, was it early? of course!! but
i think this made her stronger as a person, it helped her to grow
as human(i'm talking about manga here)
. it was challenging but to me, her personality can take
that type of challenge, and make it work somehow...

ToriJ wrote:

I feel the Tsukino Family are slightly being overlooked in this
discussion. It's not like Usagi suddenly found herself in the role of a
single mother because her future daughter came to stay (hm, sounds like a
sitcom when I put it that way). They both had Kenji and Ikuko and
their relationship seems more like that of sisters than mother and
daughter at this point. Ikuko probably spends more time taking care of
Chibiusa than Usagi does. As for Chibiusa always getting between her and Mamoru, ehh... I think those scenes are more for comic effect than to be taken seriously. I can't speak for the manga since I still haven't gotten that far.

That's exactly what I was going to say. Usagi doesn't play the role of a mother in Chibiusa's life at all. I feel like Chibiusa and Usagi just look at each other as future mother and daughter, but I don't see Chibiusa looking at Usagi as her current mother at all. She even refers to NQS as her mother and tells Usagi that she misses "her mother', portraying "her mother" as a person other than Usagi.

But yeah, I don't think it's unfair that Chibiusa stayed in the past as long as Usagi wanted her there. In the times that Usagi wishes she was back in the future, I think it is unfair. To me I guess it just depends on how Usagi feels overall about Chibiusa being there.

To be fair, future-Usagi did choose this situation, she must have felt it was necessary for Usagi to learn from Chibiusa and vice-versa.

Then, when you think on it, Chibiusa had all the trainers she would need to be a Sailor Senshi anyway in the guise of the Inner Court, Pluto and whoever later existed in Crystal Tokyo. It wasn't like it was the only way for her to learn how to be a senshi. She also is more confident now after the Death Phantom incident, so she could've made friends with the palace children too.

On the other hand.. Because Chibiusa -is- a princess, I think the factor that she needed to grow up without the attention the title brings. She also could make friends more fairly without the tension of "omg Princess!" and media and the fact that there could still be people that would want to harm her too there just because she is what she is.

((and I'm still utterly convinced that before the Black Moon Attack, Chibiusa's never been outside the Crystal Palace at all.))


Though I wonder what really lead to NQS's decision on this. Mean she's breaking the Taboo of time travel- intentionally- now. That's still a big deal and Chibiusa being there is still changing time in ways they don't know. ((I'm convinced that because Chibiusa travelled back in time the first time, that it indirectly caused the Death Busters and the following arcs as a side effect of tampering with time.))

When NQS said she meant "training", what she really meant was for Chibiusa to have personal experiences as a normal girl and to be able to make friends not about becoming a Soldier, thats more of a side thing

There's been some good points made her. Chibiusa's first visit to the past was her own decision. I think Neo-Queen Serenity's decision to send Chibiusa back to the past on several other occasions could have been influenced by the conditions of the future. The glimpse we see of the future is particularly grim and we really don't know the conditions. For all we know the future may not provide Chibiusa with the opportunity to make lasting friendships and mature as an individual and a warrior.

I don't feel like it was right to "dump" your child on your past self, but I know the future can change at any time, so do you think present day Usagi will do that to her past self too one day after she becomes queen?