Okay, so I know it's obviously a running joke-ish thing throughout the series that Chibiusa is jealous of UsaxMamo or whatever. But I just got my volume 9 today, and these pages made me cringe, especially the last one...





Like was it just well known that Chibiusa has always had romantic feelings for Mamoru or is she just longing for a love like Usagi's so much that it confuses her and makes her think she has feelings for her own future father? I guess I could see that, since she's starting to enter into this little pre-teen time in her life where she starts longing for that kind of stuff. Can someone PLEASE explain this to me or tell me this isn't what I think it is?

*Scanslations are from missdreams *

this sounds like a play on the Electra complex (Female equivalent of the Oedipus complex). Basically she's in competition with her mother and lusts for her father. However that's pretty exclusive to young children. Usagi and Chibiusa do butt head's a lot (The competition). Children drop this lust because it's impossible as seen here and they just grow out of it.

If I'm am correct though, Chibiusa did have a thing for her father when she first really started to become a character and she was younger back then so this can still apply I guess.

I'm sorry if that made no sense or if it wasn't what you were looking for lol. I'm a psych major so anytime I can apply what I've learned...I feel pretty accomplished haha.

There's six things going on here, hope I can explain it properly without being confusing:

First off Mamoru in Chibiusa's mind =/= King Endymion. She sees them as completely different individuals.

Secondly Chibiusa does seem to display some electra complex, this is not as uncommon as people often believe it is.

Thirdly. Chibiusa's "romantic feelings" filter out as she gets older, they are no longer as deep as they once were by the Dream arc.

Fourthly, Chibiusa idolizes Usagi in the manga, particularly the Dream arc, at this point to the series she pretty much wants to just be Usagi.

Fifthly. the idea of wanting a husband like your father is very common in Asian nations, particularly in Japan, not necessarily WANTING your father as your husband but that sort of image or that kind of person is often what girls aim for (usually because their mothers tell them so from a very young age)

Sixthly, incest is not as taboo in Japan as it is in the West, though it has become rare in modern times, Japanese people are less inclined to be overly judgmental over it, particularly in fiction where its not exactly a rarity.

I think the first point Miki has made is the biggest thing most people seem to forget when they get to this part. o.o!

At this point, she doesn't think of Mamoru or Usagi as being her parents. They are separate entities and she treats them differently than I imagine she would if she were interacting with her parents.

She's a scared and lonely little kid, who just wants to be like her Mama, and everyone has such high expectations of her because of how wonderful and powerful NQS is. When she goes to the past, I think she just latches on to Mamoru because he reminds her of her father, who seems to be the parent she is definitely the closest to. I don't think there's much wrong with that, personally, and I don't think it should be taken as "Oh she is romantically interested in her father! That's gross!" when Chibiusa doesn't even think of Mamoru as *being* her father. Lots of little kids get crushes on much older guys. This one just uhhh happens to be her father in the future xDD

I dunno, this is probably rambly and doesn't make much sense haha But I always feel people take this part of the manga and the anime a little too seriously and grow to hate Chibiusa's character far too unfairly xD

Verdandi wrote:

I think the first point Miki has made is the biggest thing most people seem to forget when they get to this part. o.o!

At this point, she doesn't think of Mamoru or Usagi as being her parents. They are separate entities and she treats them differently than I imagine she would if she were interacting with her parents.

She's a scared and lonely little kid, who just wants to be like her Mama, and everyone has such high expectations of her because of how wonderful and powerful NQS is. When she goes to the past, I think she just latches on to Mamoru because he reminds her of her father, who seems to be the parent she is definitely the closest to. I don't think there's much wrong with that, personally, and I don't think it should be taken as "Oh she is romantically interested in her father! That's gross!" when Chibiusa doesn't even think of Mamoru as *being* her father. Lots of little kids get crushes on much older guys. This one just uhhh happens to be her father in the future xDD

I dunno, this is probably rambly and doesn't make much sense haha But I always feel people take this part of the manga and the anime a little too seriously and grow to hate Chibiusa's character far too unfairly xD

Yeah, I think those are the two main reasons.

All of y'all's (Texas slang :p) arguments make a lot of sense, thanks for that! I mean I know that she thinks of Mamo and Endymion as two different people, but it just grosses me out to even think about it. I can't separate them in my mind and bleh it just really grosses me out and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't just reading something weird into it -.-

Okay, to be fair here, it's not just in Japan. I know in our country, U.S.A. we are more popular for broken homes, or dads who aren't really around for their kids, being distracted with media and what not, but what Rini feels isn't uncommon.

As a child, I told my dad I wanted to marry him someday. Granted I was 8 or 9. I wasn't in love with him, but I was in love with the idea of marrying someone like him. He was responsible, always there, worked hard, and took care of me and protected me. I just didn't know that was what I meant, even up until I was 12.

Later I came to meet my husband, who in many ways is a lot like my dad, but isn't in his own ways, bringing out characteristics that manga Darien has, as well as traits that make him all his own.

I think it's natural to look for a good provider anyways. A loving and doting partner, a good dad, able to hold a job, and just caring in general...

In fact isn't this where she begins to question her feelings for Mamoru because she is beginning to have feelings for Helios? She just feels guilty for having these types of feelings for two people. She's just confused...maturity wise she is like 10 or 11 here right? I'd say it's pretty normal.

I dunno, those are my thoughts. I guess I don't read anything weird into it because I know how it felt to be confused like that. The only man in your life at first is your dad. That's the male you center your world around, and then you shift it to someone else. It can be hard for some kids.

natashasurgirl wrote:

Okay, to be fair here, it's not just in Japan. I know in our country, U.S.A. we are more popular for broken homes, or dads who aren't really around for their kids, being distracted with media and what not, but what Rini feels isn't uncommon.

As a child, I told my dad I wanted to marry him someday. Granted I was 8 or 9. I wasn't in love with him, but I was in love with the idea of marrying someone like him. He was responsible, always there, worked hard, and took care of me and protected me. I just didn't know that was what I meant, even up until I was 12.

Later I came to meet my husband, who in many ways is a lot like my dad, but isn't in his own ways, bringing out characteristics that manga Darien has, as well as traits that make him all his own.

I think it's natural to look for a good provider anyways. A loving and doting partner, a good dad, able to hold a job, and just caring in general...

In fact isn't this where she begins to question her feelings for Mamoru because she is beginning to have feelings for Helios? She just feels guilty for having these types of feelings for two people. She's just confused...maturity wise she is like 10 or 11 here right? I'd say it's pretty normal.

I dunno, those are my thoughts. I guess I don't read anything weird into it because I know how it felt to be confused like that. The only man in your life at first is your dad. That's the male you center your world around, and then you shift it to someone else. It can be hard for some kids.

You make a really good point. I guess it is normal to feel like that, I never did, but then again my parents didn't have the best relationship hahah. Thanks for being open about this, I know at first this topic sounds really weird and awkward to put into words because of weird social boundaries so thanks for letting your guard down and talking about it It really makes sense to me now.

I don't mind talking about this stuff. The psychology of it is interesting in general.

I think the two most important points being made here are that little girls love their dads AND that Chibiusa doesn't see Mamoru as the same person as her dad.

Really, she must see some resemblance between Mamoru and Endymion and this is probably part of why she likes him. Perhaps she is old enough to know that she can't really be in love with her dad, but wants someone just like him because she loves him so much (the way a daughter loves her father). 

Houyou no Senshi's thoughts about Chibiusa idolizing Usagi is interesting though. I hadn't considered that that would influence her crush before!

Well, it's clear that she doesn't see Mamoru and Usagi as her future parents, she is completelly aware of the fact, but in her mind they aren't NQS and King Endymion.
But in my opnion Chibiusa has a huge Elektra complex, she has a big crush on Mamoru to the point she feels jealous of him with Usagi - Even though if they don't get together Chibiusa isn't going to be born - In every opportunity she tries to be between the 2.
When she is turned into Black Lady who is the 1st person she attacks? Tuxedo Mask. And what she does? Brainwashes him, not kill as she as willing to do with Sailor Moon, but to keep him for herself. That was a really incestous scene! The thing is much more than just "I want someone like Dad for me, in the future", it's that she wants that guy specifically, in this case Mamoru.
Besides of her looking Chibiusa has over 900 years, so tecnically not a child. As she is portraid as mature and decided. 
Usagi points that in manga, that Chibiusa saw him as woman, not a kid.

I love my father and I dream to meet a guy like him in the future, of course? Why not? He is a good person, a caring father, a great husband, a hard worker...But I don't want to marry him specifically as Chibiusa does with her own father.

In anime, since she is really a child, with around 6 or less at her 1st apperance and around 10 or so in S/SuperS things are quite more excusable, she has a crush on Mamoru and envys Usagi, but the incest never happens when she is Black Lady. And with time, she even gets worried that Usagi's behavior makes Mamoru chooses someone else, in case she, Chibiusa, wouldn't be born.

Out of topic, but related:
Did anyone ever wondered if Mamoru remembers anything from the time he was under Black Lady's control?

Tbh I find the nosebleed Mamoru got over Chibi Usa's scantily clad classmates in the Short Stories Vol 1 much weirder and creepier. I know it's comical but, eek! It was the only time I saw that from Mamo so it didn't ruin his character for me but... Chibi Usa's infatuation with her father isn't really that weird or creepy. She was young at the time, wanted a love of her own, wanted to be beautiful like her mom... it's just her hopes projecting themselves onto her father, who is her ideal man. There's a saying that women marry their fathers, as in they marry people who remind them of their fathers often. Also, Black Lady is not Chibi Usa, it was the darkness in her heart personified, and Chibi Usa can not be held responsible for what she did as Black Lady. IMO.

It's a little strange. However, I don't think Chibiusa really thinks of him in the traditional "romantic" sense.

I would only have a problem with it if the relationship went anywhere. As other members have said, it's not uncommon for children to have feelings for their parents. In Chibusa's case, I think it's more admiration than lust. I think the scene was written to showcase the difference between her feelings toward Mamoru and the ones she has toward Helios.

Actually, the only time their relationship does go anywhere is when she becomes Black Lady and that's obviously shown in a very bad light.

It's both.  From the time she was born in 30th Century Crystal Tokyo, she saw how loving her parents were toward each other, I'm guessing that she wants the same.  On the other hand, it is the Electra complex(which happens to the most normal of people when they are younger).  When she became Black Lady, the "love" became "lust" and in the manga/SMC she did kiss Mamoru in front of everyone. It's incest pretty much.

If anything, I saw this scene, and the majority of the conflict over Mamoru that Chibiusa has in the Black Moon arc to be an extension of Chibiusa wanting love/attention. When she became Black Lady, all she cared about was taking the happiness away from Usagi, who she considered as having a better life than her. 

Mamoru is just a symbol of Usagi's happiness at this point, and stealing him away is like taking Usagi's shiny trophy. It's a childish thought process, but fitting for Black Lady's character. She looks physically mature, but she still thinks like a jealous and hurt child with all the power in the world, so she resorts to tactics like this. I doubt that she even really understands what kind of love she's emulating here.

It's not right at all or respectful to Mamoru's wishes, but it's never portrayed as right either.