Hallo all,

I thought of this topic after a post by LovelyLexi here. She asked if she thought one of Naoko's artwork images was inappropriate for being a cover and it got me to thinking about Naoko's other manga artwork that had often shocked me slightly when I first saw it. Granted, I was younger then and it does not bother me now, but I was wondering on your thoughts of these images.

Now I know in comparison to the anime, the manga is rated (or should be) higher due to its more adult themes (violence, slightly more nudity, severity of actions, etc). In the end of the manga Usagi and Mamoru wake up in bed together. Do you think she created art (scenes) that were too mature for the manga audience? I am posting the following images that I had thought might be slightly too ... suggestive.












I apologize that I censored the last image. She was completely topless and I wanted to stay on the safe side of PG-13, espcially in case anyone is in a public environment while reading this (which is why I made a separate topic for this). The image of Usagi on her back with Mamoru shocked me the most and I always found the topless Chibi Usa to be a bit unsettling. Perhaps I watch too much SVU but it just did not seem right to me.

I personally don't have a problem with any of those photos (I wouldn't have cared if you hadn't censored the last photo either - but granted the reason for why you did so makes complete sense).

At the end of the day it's art and there have been many more shocking art works presented to the world. The main issue though is the younger audience that may be subjected to this. I don't have children so I don't know what to really make of it. I certainly wouldn't be showing these pictures to them upon introductions of the Sailor Moon world. Haha.

My interpretation is, it's Japanese culture. And the characters from Sailor Moon are Moon people, maybe as part of their culture Naoko may have thought they had no qualms with sexuality and nudity... There really is nothing to be ashamed of. I worry about the constant cover up of nudity for children, it can create insecurities and they become ashamed about their changing bodies. Of course I'm not for pornography and really graphic nudity around children, but I wish we would stop covering it up completely, acting all embarrassed by it and then leaving them to watch something violent and psychologically damaging.

We freak out too much with this whole 'paedophilla' thing and start to view everything like one of them would, so that we may try and stop it all from happening. It's not healthy, it's sad we have to be so afraid that sick people will look at our children the wrong way.

I think there's nothing wrong with Chibi Usa's picture. They're both ethereal creatures from another world, they are covered up as much as possible so that's it's not tasteless and it's very dreamlike, a place where no one can be hurt.

The first image (and for the most part the second image, also) I don't find too unsettling, but that's only because we see that often in the media these days. Now, I wouldn't want my kids to be seeing that anyways, but I feel that if you are old enough or your mind is a little more mature than I don't see a problem.

Now for the third one, the only thing that I would find unsettling at all is the fact that chibi-usa is topless. She's a child, and I feel that even though it is a drawing, it's still kinda awkward. I know I wouldn't want my parents questioning me what the hell I'm looking at if I were to stumble across that picture. Granted they would understand, but still. I avoid awkward situations at all costs.

The fourth on is just kinky :p I like the fact that she isn't naked, but uhm, I believe only Mamoru should be seeing that xD But the same of what I said above previously applies. I wouldn't necessarily want kids to be seeing that artwork, and it would be another awkward explanation. :p

I feel like Naoko could have gone without drawing this picture. Or, releasing it, at least. This I feel is definitely inappropriate, if there was any doubts about the others before. I would feel disturbed slightly that Naoko would release this onto a manga (Although you can correct me if I'm wrong, I've never read the whole Manga). I would have at least liked to see some sort of top, even if it was a bra or something along those lines.

In no way am I saying that these drawings aren't beautiful, because they are wonderful. I'm also not exactly sure what age Naoko was aiming for when making the manga. In the US they made the show that was supposed to be for teens for 7 year olds *Shudder* but the Manga, from what I've read, seems to be for older audiences for maybe 15 year olds and on.

I think I've derailed. Now all I can think of is "DIGRESSION" because I just read Catcher in the Rye for class.

Ahem. I just did it again.
Okay. I'm done. Here are my 2 cents

edit because I think I sound negative :p :I'm not being negative, I swear! I really do like the drawings, I'm just a little conservative, that's all (Even if they are drawings) :p

For me, when i was reading the manga first, i was about 12/13 and I adored these images. I see this as art. Nudity has never really bothered me, especially not at that age. I was a bit more fascinated with nudity then too. Cause of raging hormones maybe? I dunno. I readily admit I was looking up hentai and porn at that age, and maybe around 14 or so, drawing some secret sexual things. And it has nothing to do with how my parents raised me. Actually it might, my mom never wanted to talk about sex with me and its too awkward talking to my dad about that stuff, so I had to be curious and figure out stuff on my own and through books (not kidding, my sex talk from my mom was a book about puberty and sex lol).

Anyway, I think its tasteful nudity too. The one where she actually drew nipples was for a special art book and was not actually in the manga. It was meant for collectors and I believe an older audience, obviously. I've always felt in general Naoko did not intend the manga for really young children. I see it more of a 12 and up type manga. It has a lot of older themes and disturbing graphic images (like you know the creepy monsters and children being burned up, etc). If that image had been included in a manga print, then it would of had to have a different rating or something. But, it wasn't.

Chibi-Usa without a shirt on never bothered me either, but that may just be because I'm used to anime and manga constantly having underage nudity shows, art prints, etc. Also, technically, Chibi-Usa is like over 900 years old so she's not really underage.

A lot of it has to do with one's perspective. Naoko stated many times she wanted a sexy heroine, so I think she has every right to draw her heroine as sexily as possible. Plus Usagi has some cute boobies. XD

When it comes to Japanese culture, they view the human body differently than we do here in the States. For their culture, audience-wise, this is more than likely not offending people as it does here. There are cultures that view that the naked human body as a symbol of purity or love.

This still really doesn't bother me as I have seen/read things much worse than just a nude portrait or a suggestive theme that implies that the characters sleep together. I mean considering some of the material that is released in Japan such as Tenjou Tenge (which the manga ended up being censored due to themes and fanservice) and doujinshi that really makes this cry in shame. I think there is a fine line between tasteful art and adult art and I think this truly still lies in the tasteful art-wise.

Also, before the Infinity Artbook, all the other artbooks pretty much contained "barbie doll" nudity where it really wasn't very detailed on the breast and such. The only time Naoko every did get detailed was with the Infinity Artbook to show a sexy side of Sailor Moon (and from what I remembered to also piss off Kondansha, I think). even at that, the artwork in the Infinity Artbook is drawn in a tasteful way.

Brit-chan wrote:

Anyway, I think its tasteful nudity too. The one where she actually drew nipples was for a special art book and was not actually in the manga. It was meant for collectors and I believe an older audience, obviously. I've always felt in general Naoko did not intend the manga for really young children. I see it more of a 12 and up type manga. It has a lot of older themes and disturbing graphic images (like you know the creepy monsters and children being burned up, etc). If that image had been included in a manga print, then it would of had to have a different rating or something. But, it wasn't.

Paprika wrote:

Also, before the Infinity Artbook, all the other artbooks pretty much contained "barbie doll" nudity where it really wasn't very detailed on the breast and such. The only time Naoko every did get detailed was with the Infinity Artbook to show a sexy side of Sailor Moon (and from what I remembered to also piss off Kondansha, I think). even at that, the artwork in the Infinity Artbook is drawn in a tasteful way.

These images... I love them. Even back when I was younger and reading the manga and came across one of the pages with Usagi and Mamoru together in bed, or mostly naked and etc., it never crossed my mind that it was wrong or it didn't belong. They were in love, and their love was pure and perfect, without perversion of any sort. Theirs was the epitome of all loves, always giving and supporting; to me, this was the most natural thing in the world.

None of these images conjured thoughts of sex; they're too classy; the look in their eyes are loving and playful, not "take me now!" or anything like that. It's just two people in love, adoring each other and accepting each other for who they are on every level.

It shows several times in the manga that Usagi and Mamoru have sleepovers together; does this mean I think they took things further? I don't know - I really haven't thought that far into it. If they did, it's because they were ready for it. I mean, they made out on Mamoru's kitchen floor at one point O.o so it's not like images like this just popped into existence to slap people across the face.

^^ I glanced back at the pictures and went 'D'aww' at the first one. ^-^ so happy together.



As far as the topless one with Chibi-Usa, I seriously had to look at it again to see where the creepy vibe came from XD Pegasus being there, the angelic wings on their backs, the rolling field of grain - they're pure-hearted maidens in a Greek tale. Being topless is just how the Greeks rolled (before the introduction of Christianity...) It's the pinnacle of innocence.


And for the last two... hohohoho, Naoko having fun. ^^ The Infinity artbook was a limited release, self-published artbook released a year after she left Kodansha and filled with fanart from Naoko's friends, staff, and several of the voice-actors of the anime



WOAH MY GOD, STOP THE PRESSES. Checking sources about the Infinity artbook, I JUST FOUND OUT THAT NAOKO WAS INTRODUCED TO HER HUSBAND (the creator of YuYu Hakusho) BY THE WOMAN WHO VOICED HARUKA, WHO ALSO VOICED KURAMA.

MIND BLOWN.

MUST SHARE.


KTHANXBAI.

As for myself, I really think those pictures have very soft content since I have learned how to draw characters by drawing nudes first... I actually think that when you are able of perfectly drawing nudes, you are able of drawing barely anything.

Anyway, those are really cute pictures up there and I like them all! Of course, I think it is just normal that you take care of warning people there is a possibility of PG-13 imagery on that topic. Sensible people are then aware of what they might see if they come and see. Though it is nothing close to porn or anything similar.

Sailor Jupiter wrote:

On a small side note, I've always adored this image and I even blatantly copied it when i did a drawing of me and Trunks (from DBZ) together when i was like 13. Its horribly embarrassing but true!

Oh dear, that's too cute.

I don't find any of them shocking, and wouldn't hesitate over allowing children to see any of them either.

The chibiusa picture, uhm... ok, children being half naked? normal here. No sexual connotations in a girl who hasn't hit puberty being topless at all. It's just what kids do when it gets warm. I appreciate that this might well be different in the US, but it's not something I would even think twice about, and I'm pretty surprised that people would be worried about it possibly being interpreted as child porn! O_o It's pretty clearly a non-sexual image.

I could imagine, being at school, here in the US, and reading it and if a teacher saw that imagine they would immediately think I'm looking at something inappropriate. :/ I was drawing anime once in a class room and my teacher asked me if i was drawing "hentai". O_o;; I think somehow people just think all anime is somehow hentai/porn and if by chance they catch you drawing or looking at someone nude, even if its tasteful like the above images, then you'll get called out on it.

I've seen stories like that back when weeaboostories was on tumblr. :/ I think when you are younger (high school and younger) its more about the maturity of the kids around you and may i say, adults too. I come from a pretty conservative area, that at the same time, I'm two hours away from a city famous for girls showing their tits for Mardi Gras beads so nudity is not as scandalous around here? Well it is, just not like maybe in other areas? I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore. :/

I think its just really what your perception, state of mind, and values are.

Also in the picture with Chibi-Usa, Pegasus isn't even looking at her or Usagi. He's looking at the viewer. I think that says a lot about innocence of the image. Also the fact that Usagi and Chibi-Usa are looking at you right in the eye. It's like they know they are badass etheral goddesses and not afraid to show it off. A lot could be discussed just by the gaze in this image. Whether or not Naoko really intended deep artistic discourse like this...who knows. lol I think she just wanted to draw some sexy women. XD

Brit-chan wrote:

I was drawing anime once in a class room and my teacher asked me if i was drawing "hentai". O_o;; I think somehow people just think all anime is somehow hentai/porn and if by chance they catch you drawing or looking at someone nude, even if its tasteful like the above images, then you'll get called out on it.

:lolz: Oh God! I just died when I read this! This is so funny! Here in Canada, where I live anyway,all that mattered at school was we wouldn't wear any sexy clothes! They accused us it would distract guys and they would have bad grades. I drew anime in all my classes and even already drew hentai in math class for a guy who thought I drew good. (A request) Nobody ever said anything about it. :lolz:

JoJiaMystie wrote:

Brit-chan wrote:

I was drawing anime once in a class room and my teacher asked me if i was drawing "hentai". O_o;; I think somehow people just think all anime is somehow hentai/porn and if by chance they catch you drawing or looking at someone nude, even if its tasteful like the above images, then you'll get called out on it.

:lolz: Oh God! I just died when I read this! This is so funny! Here in Canada, where I live anyway,all that mattered at school was we wouldn't wear any sexy clothes! They accused us it would distract guys and they would have bad grades. I drew anime in all my classes and even already drew hentai in math class for a guy who thought I drew good. (A request) Nobody ever said anything about it. :lolz:

What made it worse was that he was a creepy almost senile old man. He was a physics teacher. Poor guy, i think he was really just a crazy genius because we didn't learn anything from him, but apparently he was really smart. And the whole senior class got away with cheated form him. But yeah.

That is like the only scenario I could think of where the images could get you in any kind of trouble. (i didn't get in trouble, he asked me in a creepy pervy kinda way and lets just say i was a bit disturbed by it all.)

Toft wrote:

I don't find any of them shocking, and wouldn't hesitate over allowing children to see any of them either.

The chibiusa picture, uhm... ok, children being half naked? normal here. No sexual connotations in a girl who hasn't hit puberty being topless at all. It's just what kids do when it gets warm. I appreciate that this might well be different in the US, but it's not something I would even think twice about, and I'm pretty surprised that people would be worried about it possibly being interpreted as child porn! O_o It's pretty clearly a non-sexual image.

I agree. It seems like nowadays a lot of things similiar to Chibi Usa's picture above, get interpreted as child porn or as being highly innapropriate. And I don't see why. I'm pretty sure there's a very clear line between what is acceptable and what isn't. I'm sure it's that obvious. The main thing is that there is no sexual connotations implied which means it's an innocent picture. It's definitely more about aesthetics and what Naoko thought would look better. They definitely look like moon Goddesses' or something. And partial or all nudity comes with that territory.

Speaking of hentai and pornography.

I was told last night that Sailor Moon started off originally as porn (or maybe they meant hentai, which I know is different). o.O I was pretty much like, 'you don't know anything, shoosh your mouth!' but then I didn't have a back up so I could've been wrong in their eyes, even though I'm right. Right?

RIGHT!?


:scratch:

Well Personally I like the pictures I think they do give the characters more depth and to be honest...Usagi knows she will spend the rest of her life with Mamoru plus they do get engaged/married so..yeah why not? I don't have a problem with the art I have a problem with the people who think the company should censor themselves. No, they are putting out their product, as a parent,guardian,whatever you are, its your choice on whether or not to look at it. I feel like it gives Usagi and Mamoru's relationship more depth I mean their both older teens/adult when these adult relations(yeah lol XD) occurred. And many people my age, younger(sadly) and older think about whether or not to have "adult relations" lol and Naoko was just showing that. The last picture though...what was the point of usagi being completely topless? like...idk but I perfectly fine with them, as long as they aren't extremely graphic I'm fine.

Halfpixieman wrote:

I was told last night that Sailor Moon started off originally as porn (or maybe they meant hentai, which I know is different). o.O I was pretty much like, 'you don't know anything, shoosh your mouth!' but then I didn't have a back up so I could've been wrong in their eyes, even though I'm right. Right?

RIGHT!?


:scratch:

You're right. That's a lie.

Lovely Lexi wrote:

Well Personally I like the pictures I think they do give the characters more depth and to be honest...Usagi knows she will spend the rest of her life with Mamoru plus they do get engaged/married so..yeah why not? I don't have a problem with the art I have a problem with the people who think the company should censor themselves. No, they are putting out their product, as a parent,guardian,whatever you are, its your choice on whether or not to look at it. I feel like it gives Usagi and Mamoru's relationship more depth I mean their both older teens/adult when these adult relations(yeah lol XD) occurred. And many people my age, younger(sadly) and older think about whether or not to have "adult relations" lol and Naoko was just showing that. The last picture though...what was the point of usagi being completely topless? like...idk but I perfectly fine with them, as long as they aren't extremely graphic I'm fine.

You are right. That is a very old rumor which pops up every now and then. From what I believe, this is a common misunderstanding from those who've only seen the anime and saw them "transforming". *insert facepalm*

I remember as a kid when I first started watching Sailor Moon, I would search on what was then AOL (XD) and I found those exact pictures, at age 8. Now granted, I was pretty mature for my age then and I found NOTHING wrong with those images. I considered it art. Plus I was able to catch onto things more often like how Haruka and Michiru were lesbians, and all the other censors.

Frankly, with the exception of nude Usagi, I don't think any of the others are bad for a younger audience, and with all of these cartoons and shows nowadays, it would be welcomed in my household so they can actually see what real love is.

Adult themed? Provocative, perhaps, for younger audiences and individuals who may possess stricter sensibilities about nudity. Only the latter two pieces posted strike me as being more "adult" oriented as Usagi is wearing lingerie. The rest appear relatively harmless to me. I can understand someone making a fuss about Chibiusa being topless, but it is quite a tame drawing. To me, these all appear to be a greater embrace of the "natural" beauty which is recurrent in Takeuchi's work. For example, she tends to emphasize the Sailor Senshi as women (i.e., their features are more clearly defined) when they transform. There are a lot of long-legged teenage girls running about in the manga, so one could even question the source material. But I never really had the impression Takeuchi aimed to provide fan service for the male spectrum of the Sailor Moon fandom.

This is a classic case of when the artist's intent can be reinterpreted. If you know Takeuchi's work, you understand she is not trying to exploit the looks of teenage girls for the sake of providing some sort of soft core pornography (Takeuchi is exploiting their beauty by placing them in skimpy uniforms; again, they're made to be attractive). That being said, you can either shrug off Chibiusa being topless or recognize someone else may find it arousing. Being made to feel awkward is the very design of provocative art; clearly this imagery would evoke those sorts of feelings. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, though as I said, I find the drawings to be quite tame.

I never had a problem with any of those pictures myself. Sure, they are a bit risque, but I actually kind of like that. It's interesting to see Usagi in a more mature light like that, shows that she really has grown up to be a beautiful woman~ As for ChibiUsa topless, I don't see it as her being sexualized (I doubt that's a word) at all, so I don't feel so awkward about it.

Plus, aren't the last two pictures from the Infinity artbook? So if you're reading the manga in a public environment, I doubt you'd have to worry about those popping up! Also, I think if you actually did look through that artbook in public, you may get jumped by a jealous Moonie for it! XD

No problem here. It's not quite doujinshi, or at least not the type of doujinshi I like...
I think it's kind of a silly part of American culture to believe nudity and sex are worse than violence, as far as censorship goes.

nekosenshi wrote:

No problem here. It's not quite doujinshi, or at least not the type of doujinshi I like...
I think it's kind of a silly part of American culture to believe nudity and sex are worse than violence, as far as censorship goes.

I totally agree. But i think a lot of that has to do with the Religious background of a majority of American culture.

Speaking of, the picture of Usagi and Chibi-Usa with Pegasus, I was on MangaStyle.net and they have the notes translated. They made me giggle a bit. Here's the quote:

Quote :

"A little earlier, while I was waiting in the car at a stoplight, suddenly I looked over on the rear view mirror of the neighboring car and saw a plumed pegasus-tail keyholder hanging from the end. Alas! This nice drawing is also of Erios’s plumed tail. The two girls’ pose (though a little ecchi) is very suited to them ^_^ The glass-like glitter of the beads came out well in the printing."

She even knew it was "ecchi" when she drew it, but she didn't care. haha

(#1: Small Lady Brit-chan, YOUR SIGNATURE IS ADORABLY ADORABIBBLE. XD)

#2: Before reading that last post, I hadn't paid close attention to Helio's tail (and Erios? XD ENGRISH!!!) at all and had assumed it was a hair-tail, like any usual pegasus , but no! it's like a hairy dog's tail, but with feathers of... well, feathers, rather than feathers of hair. o.o ... the end.

I find in the context of the work aren't that bad because it is art; Especially since it is in a separate art book that was meant for an older age group.
I never knew these images existed until a few months ago actually.

LunarPorcelainDoll wrote:

I find in the context of the work aren't that bad because it is art; Especially since it is in a separate art book that was meant for an older age group.
I never knew these images existed until a few months ago actually.

I feel that they are art too. In fact, these above images are some of my favorite Sailor Moon images. I've always been in love with them as long as I've always been in love with Naoko's art.

Small Lady wrote:

LunarPorcelainDoll wrote:

I find in the context of the work aren't that bad because it is art; Especially since it is in a separate art book that was meant for an older age group.
I never knew these images existed until a few months ago actually.

I feel that they are art too. In fact, these above images are some of my favorite Sailor Moon images. I've always been in love with them as long as I've always been in love with Naoko's art.

Yes, this art, and the other art from that book I have to say is her best as well. I love the images.

the sailor moon manga are more teen oriantated, and the anime more kids oriantated.

and for r-13 (or r-12 here in germany) it's nothing special/shoking. except the last picture because of the nipples (r-16) ^^

The thing that I see most is that, ya know, like everyone else has made a point of saying - it's art in some form or fashion.

As per the content... If you drew the same thing all the time (the uniforms, bad guys going after the senshi and trying to kill them, supah BA attacks, etc etc...) wouldn't you want to draw something a little different?
I know I have felt that way when working on some of my own works and school projects. It's nice to go outside of the box and draw things from either a much more innocent or slightly more perverted/explicit prospective. Not that any of them are explicit (in fact, I find them very beautiful), but I think Naoko was exploring more into her own style of art and really just wanted to do something a little different from the norm.

And I do agree with Small Lady. These images are absolutely gorgeous. I'd love to get my hands on whatever artbook that these images were published in (if they were even published in one at all..?)

* O *

invictus.lumine wrote:

I'd love to get my hands on whatever artbook that these images were published in (if they were even published in one at all..?)

the last 2 pictures are from the "Infinity Artbook" and its reeeeeally rare, some people selll it for $1300 - $2600.
not a joke

I know! I so so so wish I could own that book, I love it because it was published by Naoko herself and not by Kodansha. and she had art from other artists and the seiyuus from the anime had stuff in there too. Mangastyle.net has the entire artbook uploaded for your viewing pleasure though.