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 [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?

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Is the subbed 90s anime suitable for young children?
Yes
[Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_vote_lcap33%[Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_vote_rcap
 33% [ 11 ]
No
[Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_vote_lcap12%[Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_vote_rcap
 12% [ 4 ]
Not sure/It depends
[Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_vote_lcap55%[Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_vote_rcap
 55% [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 33
 

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PostSubject: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime20th August 2016, 4:05 pm

[Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? Te9tTW2
Original Thread: x

It's time to continue the Greatest Hits series! Very Happy I brought this topic back because it has the potential for a lot of great discussion, especially considering the varying ratings of different versions of the original anime between countries.

The cultural standards between Japan and Western countries such as America can sometimes vary greatly--while the original Japanese anime is marketed toward young Japanese children, the English dubbed anime marketed toward young American children was heavily edited from the version shown in Japan. Considering that the original Japanese anime contained some questionable scenes later cut from the dubbed versions in most countries (such as in the second episode where we see Umino flip up Ms. Haruna's skirt), and also because it sometimes contains more mature themes of death and violence, do you think that the subbed 90s anime should really be considered a kids' show?

What do you think? Is the subbed Sailor Moon 90s Anime really suitable as a show for children? Feel free to voice your thoughts on both the subbed and dubbed versions. Happy debating! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime20th August 2016, 9:07 pm

maybe a 10-16 age kid show? depends on the age range your thinking. also which version you watch too. (Voted no btw)
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime20th August 2016, 9:55 pm

I would say no, it's not. Firstly, the source content was a manga made for older audiences. I'm surprised SMC managed to keep the innuendos on the down low, but ultimately, the manga was just marketed towards a much more mature audiences. The 90s anime did several changes to make it more kid-friendly, however, unless you're letting you're children only watch the SuperS arc, then I think Sailor Moon Classics is far from being a children's show. It had lessons during the monsters of the week episode, but the plot itself just didn't fit the whole concept of what children's show should be. It's why majority of the original plot wasn't completely explained, so there were numerous holes to fill.  In fact, I think they took several interesting routes (such as the gay relationship in the 4 Knights), or involving serious topics like religion (the episode with the priest). I think it definitely tackled numerous real life situations, but those situations were far too- mature for little children to truly understand. I guess it's why the English Dub changed A LOT, to make it actually suitable for a younger audience, except the turning Zoisite to a girl, that one just screams homophobic.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime21st August 2016, 5:48 am

(voted not sure)...I would watch Sailor Moon with my kids and I do mean the uncensored, yet "child-friendly" versions I can find online. The 90s version (North American English dub) was often edited to fit the sensitivities of certain people who do not like LGBT themes. :-/ The senshi are supposedly 13-14 years old, which means in Japan, it catered to teens and pre-teens, but younger children can watch and relate to it. The death scenes, would be considered inappropriate for a cartoon watched by younger children though.

Here's something about Fisheye...the gender-bender villain character on the Japanese version.


And Fisheye is indeed gender ambiguous...any of this was on the North American version?
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime27th August 2016, 7:42 am

Solipsi Rai wrote:
And Fisheye is indeed gender ambiguous...any of this was on the North American version?

Fish Eye was edited to be strictly female in the North American dub and in most other dubs as well. As the Fish Eye article in the Sailor Moon Wiki states: "In several dubs of the anime, Fish Eye was portrayed as a female. The only exceptions were the Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, and Brazillian dubs. In the Korean dub, he and the Amazon Trio were cut out completely."

As for my opinion on this topic, I voted that it depends. The original Japanese version definitely contains more mature themes, but the English dub was so heavily edited that I wouldn't really recommend it for kids either. Much of the edits did make the English dub a lot more kid-friendly, but the blatant erasure of Haruka and Michiru's lesbian relationship and Fish Eye's gender ambiguous identity, as well as portraying Zoisite as female in order to seemingly justify his relationship with Kunzite, makes the English dub something that I wouldn't want my kids to watch either. Those edits were very homophobic and I do not support them in the least.

I think that the perfect age to get into Sailor Moon is generally around 10 or 11, but it really depends on each individual child and their level of maturity and readiness to watch a show like Sailor Moon.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime27th August 2016, 1:50 pm

I feel that 10 or 11 is a little too young to fully appreciate all the aspects of Sailor Moon. As I grow older and go through more life-changing experiences, I am able to further relate to more of the scenarios in the anime. There's also a lot of sexual jokes, depictions of men taking advantage or attempting to take advantage of women, and other similar content that may make some younger kids feel uncomfortable (Jupiter also curses a lot lol). I don't think that it's necessarily unsuitable for kids, but it wouldn't be the first show I would recommend to someone younger than 13. 

HOWEVER

If I were to recommend either the original or dub to a younger kid, the original is definitely much more appropriate.

In my opinion, the English dub did the opposite of making Sailor Moon more "kid friendly" by turning it into a homophobic, borderline racist, whitewashed, seemingly incestuous and sometimes even immoral anime. It very often showed children (especially Chibiusa) being extremely disrespectful to their peers and elders. It also depicted very cruel friendship dynamics between the inner senshi (and no, not just Rei. Literally all of them. Even Usagi!!). There are many scenes from the Japanese version in which Usagi had originally said something kind and endearing that was changed to a snarky insult in the dub. The same goes for every other character in the anime.
The dub also had a habit of using female-shaming words such as hussy and tramp (most often said by Chibiusa to Usagi) and erased many of the empowering scenes such as Usagi, Ami and Rei standing up against the sexist Jadeite and various scenes of Usagi selflessly defending her friends. 
Also, there was no need to erase every sliver of evidence of Japanese culture because I'm pretty sure all kids are aware of the existence of other countries. But that's for another conversation.
There are countless examples of the dub derailing Sailor Moon and failing to make it more "appropriate for children." Many people who see the dub through nostalgia glasses might overlook these changes. 

http://ladyloveandjustice.tumblr.com/tagged/sailor-moon-dub <-- This tumblr has a lot of great posts about this topic!

As for the manga and crystal: absolutely PG 13 (as it is rated on the English manga and dvds). I don't think it's okay for a kid younger than 13 to be watching/reading something that romanticizes suicide but hey, each to his own I guess.  
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime2nd September 2016, 6:40 pm

I don't think it's a show very young children should watch although I think kids were the target audience. Like the rating they give it here, I'd say 13+
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime2nd September 2016, 10:14 pm

I agree that it's more a 13+ (teen) anime. Too much had to be filtered and edited to fit kids in the dub version released in the 90's. While it was good, it did leave much to be desired, and sometimes made it too cheesy for the older fans (IMO). The unedited version of the anime is much better and of course I'll say I prefer the subtitled version to the dubbed, simply because of the more mature tone it carried.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime16th September 2016, 12:24 pm

I'm not sure. I think some of the themes are too mature for little kids, but people are growing up faster now.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime3rd October 2016, 2:23 pm

I'd have to say it's for ages 11+ at least.

It shouldn't be an issue for anybody above 10, but it depends on the child.

I'm certainly allowed because my mom let me watch Sword Art Online in front of her.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime8th October 2016, 5:40 pm

I'd have to say it'd be for children in middle school, since they are more likely to handle the rougher parts of the arcs as well as have a reading level high enough to read the subtitles. I wouldn't mind younger children watching the subbed version, but the subtitles might bore them. I'd defiantly have them watch the viz dub, however. And if they think they can handle and have a high enough reading level to read the manga, go for it! I started watching the dub around age 8 and started reading the manga around the same time; even though some parts of it scared the hell outta me and I didn't fully understand some aspects of the manga until years later.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime10th October 2016, 10:54 am

I voted yes. My motto regarding media is "Allow everything. Deny nothing."

Of course, my views might be a bit different than others'. I largely raised myself by watching TV after school, because both of my parents were usually at work. I read a children's horror book in elementary school. One of the stories involved a woman whose head fell off at the end. I read another one in 6th grade called "The Phantom Coach", and the illustrations scared me so much that I had to sleep in my parents' bed that night (I read the original prose story around six or more years ago, and that still scared me a bit). I got scared by children's horror movies such as "Mr. Boogedy" and "Bride of Boogedy". My mom would often rent videos when I was little, and she let me pick out the videos. I chose stuff like "The Heavenly Kid", "Fright Night", and "Zapped!". I turned out just fine, and I'm glad that I had the relatively free childhood that I did.

So, yeah, let them watch everything. These kids are the generation that was raised on Angry Video Game Nerd and Nostalgia Critic, anyway.

Administrator Note: This post has been edited to remove non-PG 13 content. - Sailor Jupiter  [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? 1333987389
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime16th November 2016, 10:37 pm

Tuxedo Mark wrote:
I voted yes. My motto regarding media is "Allow everything. Deny nothing."

Of course, my views might be a bit different than others'. I largely raised myself by watching TV after school, because both of my parents were usually at work. I read a children's horror book in elementary school. One of the stories involved a woman whose head fell off at the end. I read another one in 6th grade called "The Phantom Coach", and the illustrations scared me so much that I had to sleep in my parents' bed that night (I read the original prose story around six or more years ago, and that still scared me a bit). I got scared by children's horror movies such as "Mr. Boogedy" and "Bride of Boogedy". My mom would often rent videos when I was little, and she let me pick out the videos. I chose stuff like "The Heavenly Kid", "Fright Night", and "Zapped!". I turned out just fine, and I'm glad that I had the relatively free childhood that I did.

So, yeah, let them watch everything. These kids are the generation that was raised on Angry Video Game Nerd and Nostalgia Critic, anyway.

Administrator Note: This post has been edited to remove non-PG 13 content. - Sailor Jupiter  [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? 1333987389

I disagree.  As a child, we are born innocent and as such parents should not be allowing their children to see, read, and play things that are for those that are more mature then them.  I studied child development, and developmentally, those who aren't teens yet, are not ready for some of the scenes in the original 90's subbed anime.  Those can really scar a child for life.

My answer for the question would be it depends on because of the cultural differences.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime28th January 2017, 9:01 pm

I think Sailor Moon is more suitable for the young adult crowd and if they're old enough to read Harry Potter or the Hunger Games, they're old enough for Sailor Moon.   And most parents have no problems taking older kids to go see PG13 rated superhero movies.  Personally I think the Batman movies are a lot more violent and have more troubling themes than anything in Sailor Moon and I say this as a Batman fan, though I agree Sailor Moon might be too intense for small kids, especially in S and Stars.  On the subject of the DiC dub, speaking as a gay Sailor Moon fan, I don't think it's fair to judge the DiC dub for being homophobic because it happened to be a product of it's times.  

Yes, it's unfortunate things had to be censored, but that was the only way to get an anime on American kid's TV in 1995 when there was less progress on LGBTQ rights back then and anime was even less popular than it is nowadays.   If Sailor Moon had been aired in a more uncensored form, it would have been sued by all the parental watchdog groups and been cancelled right away as even gay relationships on adult TV shows was still controversial then.  Most of us would probably not be here in Sailor Moon fandom today without the DiC dub and Sailor Moon would have faded into obscurity without it and modern anime fandom would be a lot different today.  It's easy for us to be holier than thou to the DiC dub now but if you must judge, you should judge the society that forced them to make that decision and not DiC themselves.  

In regards to sexism, I also don't think it's fair to judge the DiC dub for sexism when the original also had a lot of sexism that DiC actually toned down significantly.  The perfect example is the infamous weight loss episode where DiC cut out all the fat shaming jokes of the original and made the message a lot more socially acceptable than the original.  I was also grateful DiC cut out all the scenes of Grandpa Hino harassing the Sailor Guardians for comedy which I never was a fan of.  The Inners could also be just as stereotypical and "boy crazy" in the original anime as they were in the DiC version.  Terri Hawkes herself is a feminist and it's my understanding it was she who requested they removed the words Make Up from the transformation phrases because she thought they were too sexist.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime19th February 2017, 9:12 am

I voted it depends. Like some of the other people have been saying, it definitely was toned down a lot to make it "kid friendly" for American TV. That being said, with the censorship it was a great show for me to watch as a child growing up and having a female hero character as a role model because there isn't much of that in our media, and even still today. A couple of people pointed out the LGBT censorship in the 90s version but as a child I was fully aware of the relationship between Uranus and Neptune and it seemed normal to me so I guess they didn't do a good job of hiding that. I'm not sure though of other themes and instances other than that where they might have concealed some character development.
However otherwise it's definitely a show for young to older adults. Just reading the manga for example there was a lot of stuff in there that isn't child friendly at all. A lot of examples of this were already made above.
It could honestly go either way. Having a censored and non-censored version to cater to audiences helps broaden viewership. Although one concern I have is if there were more LGBT themes that I didn't realize were being censored, that should be uncensored for both viewing parties.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime7th June 2017, 3:42 am

I think children can watch the original SM 90's anime uncensored, even if when you're too young maybe cannot fully appreciate it. I started watching it when I was six years old and it - helped me to grow many and many interests, but of course, watching it once grown up I undestood it under many more levels. Being italian, when I was a child I watched the italian dubbed version, lightly censored (not much as the american one, just for stars it was a big mess), for example I remember that it was clear that haruka and michiru (Heles and Milena in italian dub) were a couple (even if some dialogues were a bit different). And I remember that the awakening of Hotaru as Mistress 9 and Saturn was really disquieting (but they never call her deity for "kami", they used the word "creature of silence" for "hametsu no kami/messiah", as well as they never say Messiah for SM, the used "supreme essence" and "lunar cup" for "seihai"). Anyway, I don't get the point in censoring the religious references, because faith in my opinion is one of the most interesting aspects of this anime (and of the manga of course).
So, considering that the only few differences in the dubbed version I saw when I was a child were about religious words, omosexuality and an attempt to make the dialogues more shallow and less intriguing (so they just managed to make the whole anime worse) I guess kids can watch it in the original dialogues, and they can enjoy it even more.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime7th June 2017, 5:49 am

By Japanese standards, yes, it is a kids show. And I think that in hindsight, Sailor Moon could be a kids show when it's uncensored. Some things were even edited without really doing much to change the feel of the events: though they heavily edited the scouts' deaths and said they were captured, I still got the impression they were dead. And lets not forget the lesbian cousins. And with some violent scenes, while scary, did not seem psychologically scarring.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime7th June 2017, 8:21 am

I keep arguing about how sailor moon isn't a kids show probably because of my own experience with it (and I won't complain about the dub this time). 

The suicide in the manga really really disturbed me as a kid. It was my first time being exposed to this so it was pretty shocking. 
Also SuperS made me uncomfortable with the whole alluding to sexual assault dream mirror thing 
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they didn't even sugarcoat it 

I am probably biased because I used to be an extremely sensitive child. But even if most other kids aren't bothered by these themes, they may not able to fully appreciate some of the aspects of sailor moon until they are older. As an adult, sailor moon touches my heart more than ever before because many aspects remind me of experiences that have occurred in my own life.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime7th June 2017, 8:35 am

I think the real question should be if you feel like it is appropriate for kids rather than is it a kids' show because that's up to personal opinion and what you feel comfortable showing to little kids. If you go back and look at all the marketing in Japan in the 90s, it's all aimed at little kids, mostly girls. Just watch this 36 minute compilation of Japanese TV commercials.



As far as the original 90s anime goes, yes it is a kids show, meant for kids and appropriate for kids. I know with the cultural differences between Japan and the US, I might wait to show a few certain episodes (mainly like when Usagi is full nude in the last episode xD) to younger kids, but overall I think it's perfect for kids. Episodes are formulaic and easy to follow, you don't have to know whats going on in the plot to get into it. It's basically cartoon Power Rangers for girls.

That said, the manga is a different story. That I believe ended up being intended for an older female audience, just not young children (4-9). It was in Nakayoshi magazine after all, which marketed for the 10-18 girls demographic.

The musicals were created for kids but ended up having an adult following as it grew in popularity. The live action was meant for kids as well, being a toukatsu "Super Sentai" styled show. The toys were marketed towards the same demographic as the 90s anime was. I think however due to the plot getting rather deep and heavy on the drama, it was a reason why it didn't do as well and appeals more to older fans.  

SMC is a mostly direct adaptation of the manga aimed at the now grown up fans, so I think its a given which demographic they are aiming for there.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime7th June 2017, 11:29 am

Usa-chan wrote:
The suicide in the manga really really disturbed me as a kid. It was my first time being exposed to this so it was pretty shocking. 
I will agree that the manga is not for little kids younger than 11. It's a little more mature and, at times, has down right scary imagery.
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[Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime7th June 2017, 6:06 pm

I'd say it depends. What people consider appropriate for children varies between countries and cultures. Regarding nudity, in Japan children grew up going to hot springs and public baths with their family, and young boys are allowed in the women's baths where everyone is completely naked. Case in point, when I was in Japan earlier this year there was a little boy running around the public onsen my friends and I were hanging out at, and no one batted an eye I sorta did, only because the kid was being rather loud and a little obnoxious. Because of this I think the general Japanese audiences are probably a lot more desensitized to non-sexual depictions of nudity.

Astray brought up an interesting point with the Italian dub editing out a lot of the religious themes in Sailor Moon. Italy is a predominantly catholic country and I'd imagine broadcasters didn't want to run into issues with conservative parents who might misinterpret the words in Sailor Moon and think the cartoon is presenting some sort of false messiah to their children. But in Japan where the dominant religion is Shintoism, which is a polytheistic religion. People are used to worshiping numerous gods, as well as depicting and interpreting them in different ways. This I think contributes to a more relaxed attitude towards the use and mixing of different religious symbols and ideas, and in fact it's not uncommon for Buddhist and Shinto temples to share the same grounds.
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[Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime14th July 2017, 3:22 pm

I think it really does depend on the kids (and, to be fair, the parents).  My  ten year old nephew loves SM because it edges a little on the dark side, and he is very, in his words, "deathy."  I don't worry about him being frightened, and if he is old enough for Force Awakens or Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, I figure Sailor Moon is fine.  But I don't think I would show it to a ten year old I didn't know, even if I was sure their parents wouldn't mind the content.  I certainly don't show it to my younger nephew, even though I know my best friend shows it to her children, and they are younger (4-12).  I also know she talks a lot about what is going on, and why it is happening, to give the kids some framework.

Really though, I would be more comfortable giving it to teens if I didn't know the children and what they could handle.  The content is just too much for some ten and eleven year olds, and I would rather err on the side of caution.  On the other hand, if I knew the child and what they were ready for, I might give it to them considerably younger.  I would just have to play it by ear.  But I certainly wouldn't mark it as being for small children.

My ages are also likely a little skewed by the fact that I know I would say the manga goes with the anime, and I agree that the manga edges to the older side.  Therefore, if you are old enough for one, you have to be old enough for the other content-wise.  With that in mind, I probably lean toward a touch on the older side to make sure I wouldn't mind handing the kids the manga as well as the show (I've let the kids look over my shoulder while I was reading it before).  I know that is just a me thing, but it does mean that I would wait a little extra time to show them the anime.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show?   [Debate] Greatest Hits! Is Sailor Moon Really a Kids' Show? I_icon_minitime

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